Now they want to Blame Ammon for LaVoy’s Death



So now a Federal Judge in Oregon thinks that the protesters at the Refuge are to blame for Lavoy Finicums death? Which one pulled the trigger, Judge Beckerman? Watch the video and listen to all the things that could have been changed that would not have cost a life. The man narrating it is a retired Police Officer, something to put some stock into.

But if you wish to go back even further, why were not the past and present Sheriff of Harney County being indited? Or the Governor, both past and current? Their failure to discharge their duties in protecting the Hammonds from the BLM is the spark that started this grass fire. Decades they have been working around and against the constantly changing rules and regulations and, the Last Refuge has already done extensive research on this and the Atty. that had them re-sentenced at http://theconservativetreehouse.com

“Beckerman didn’t buy that argument. “This went so far beyond a peaceful protest,” she said, adding that it put the surrounding community, police and those at the refuge in danger.”

And the ‘Occupy’ protests, Ferguson and Boston protests were peaceful? How many rapes were reported connected to the Oregon protest? How many businesses were stripped bare? How many buildings were burned? Vehicles destroyed? The overblown reaction of the county, state, and the federal law enforcement, closing schools, barricading the courthouse and setting up a compound at the airport is one of the reasons there was so much reaction by the people, both local and from outside the area. Don’t forget, the Refuge is 30 miles south of town.

Is it any wonder that Ammon Bundy said that he could not get justice in a federal court, but he knew that before he started.

Release Ammon Bundy or maybe White folks should start acting like the Black folks and burn whole neighborhoods down.. But not their own neighborhoods.. The Neighborhoods of Government officials, Government leaders and their minions live in..

+1 GW, REALLY !

How about the death won't have happened if the .gov stop acting like they are the masters of the plantation.

I don't thinK you are seriously suggesting that we do that, but the truth as I see it, is what you just posted should be taken at lest in a general way seriously.

We should start acting more in the way that the Black Protesters and Occupy Protesters, do when they Protest, minus the Looting and Burning, at least at first.

We should block the streets and the highways like the Black Lives Matter Protesters did,

We need to stop acting like Good, Peaceful, Turn The Other Cheek Christians and start acting like Patriots and Fighting Men should act.

The Militia who stood on Lexington Green the morning of April 19, 1775 and latter that morning Fought Against and Killed British Regulars while they were Marching Back to Boston and the Militia who Fought and Killed British Regulars at Concord Bridge and then also from behind Trees, Fired on and Killed Redcoats on the Menotomy Road as the Redcoats made their way back to Boston.

We need to act like the Colonial Militia did that on that April Morning, and not as turn the other cheek Christians, which is us up to this point.

The Bastards are never going to like us so we need to stop being concerned about winning hearts and minds and what these scum think of us.

What we need is respect, the kind of respect that causes most people to be talk nice to cops even if they were not breaking any law when they were stopped.

The kind of respect that causes most people to not walk into a Biker Bar and insult Colors Wearing Bikers.

Or do the same thing to a group of Street Gang Members.

Most people do not insult, Cops, Bikers and Street Gang Members because they like them but because they Fear Them.

Insult a Cop and the Cop may arrest you.

Insult a Biker or Street Gang Member and they may rearrange your face and break a few ribs and Street Gang Members may also kill you.

What the Militia and Patriots in general need is the same type of respect that, Cops, Bikers and Street Gangs receive, and add to that the respect that the Mafia Members, and Drug Cartel Members receive, and until then it is Open Season on Patriots and on the Militia. And this is the TRUTH.

Yes of course I was being sarcastic.. But it worked.. You got the point I was making and stated it quite well..

And though some will disagree.. But you are right.. We are going to have to get mean, and demand respect Or "F"ing take it...

Most younger generation. When it comes to respect. Is who is the bad ass or who has the power never asking how they got it. All about the money never minding what is Morrell right or wrong.

Actually it is not just the younger generation this is the way it has been throughout history.

The Best Swordsman was the one who got the most respect, and then it was the Best Rifle Shot and then in the days of the Wild West it was the Fastest Draw.

This is not just true for our Species it is also true for Lions, Wolves, Domestic Dogs, Horses and other wild and domestic animals. This is just the way it is and we were created this way.

The person with the most power has always been the one with the Most Respect and that is the way it will stay.

It is total stupidity to fight against human nature, as Patriots we just need to embrace it and use it to our advantage.

As to what is Morally Right and what is Morally Wrong, that should not influence how we fight for Freedom. We need to do whatever we believe will help us Win the War and not be concerned or overly concerned with the Morality of our actions.

We must not lose, since to lose means not only the loss of a war but the loss of not only our rights and Freedoms but the loss of Rights and Freedoms for our Children and Grandchildren and all our descendant's in the future until one generation decides to Fight for Freedom and wins.

To lose the war due to our not doing what is needed to win because we thought the actions were not moral with the result that our Descendant's are condemned to live as slaves in a totalitarian future Society, would be the greatest immorality of them all.

Gentlemen.
and I may be banned for this,,so be it.

if there is blame to be placed, I place it on you.

I live unarmed, I own no firearms, I have no privilege, I am a prohibited person.
(something else that should not exist)

oh,, I am capable of arming myself should I have need. and some have offered over the years.
I will not accept an arm from just anyone,,

I just wonder where all the folks are,, that should be defending?,and why do they think they need a leader to lead them?

i KNOW that every known and named group is compromised,, but not all men are.

Damn it. I'm out of one prison and in another.
Hey you guys with the guns,,

Why was not Lavoy defended without his knowledge..

Why where those pigs allowed to amass without redress?

asking these questions here..cuz where else?

(should be NOTED TO MODS, check IP from previous)

I seem to find myself nearby.

The problem I see with it, Pcosmar is this.. And of course there is plenty of blame to go around..

I want to say first I think we better get control of the so called Fake leadership.. The ones who calls us the bad guys... They act more like the controlled opposition..

We all know where fault lies, now we can blame and point fingers or use it to learn..

1. The Protest never reached out to more reliable Militia units.. The People they were listening to should have said... Hey let's do a letter campaign till spring gather some support in the community.. Then do our protest..

Hind sight is 20 /20..

2. They believed some of the so called Patriots and we abandoned them when things got tough.. I say WE because we aren't cleaning our own house..

Was this because the Patriots are infiltrated?...I doubt it..

Though the refuge was definitely infiltrated.. at least by one guy.. But we made the mistake of not pushing the PPN and oathkeepers aside and getting them out.

3. I think the Poorly led Patriots including the "militia" men, under estimated the difficulty in their task... Under estimated the response and had not (as they should have)figured out the Propaganda, that the media and LEO would use against them..

After Waco and RR everyone should know that if they do not set up media contacts... Gather local support, they will be destroyed in the media...

Even today after it's over, the FBI is using the Propaganda, that they need to clear the building of explosives..
They aren't saying, they are there.. But just leaving that idea in the head of locals and the media.

4. Although, you must be ready to operate in bad or extreme cold weather.. Planning an occupation where you hope regular citizens come and stand with you..
Is better done in warmer weather..

If all I hear from OathKeepers, PPN and other Militia groups is they should have had the Protest in the spring.. Typical cowards and fake Patriots..

But they are right about one thing...If you can't get their ass out in the snow, well see below..

Well brothers, if you can't get guys who supposedly train for this type of weather.. How do you expect to get a bunch of regular folks to leave their cozy warm homes to come and stand for weeks in the 10* degree weather?...

Washington and many leaders who had militia as fighters faced this same problem..

Those citizen fighters thought Fair weather fighting is bad enough.. And grumble and complained about the cold..

So bad planning was a problem.. Some one in the Militia Leadership should have warned of this.. I heard complaints from day one that this winter Protest was a bad idea..

5. Not to mention going in armed was a bad strategic move..
Unlike the "Bundy ranch", where the Feds were the ones surrounded.. The feds were the ones who were in the bad position.. This one wasn't thought out well... But it tells you what works and what doesn't, That said these guys are still heroes to me...

So if you were going to protest and put yourself in a no escape situation.. It should have been one that set the Feds up to be the heavy handed ones..

6.Was Lavoy unarmed?... I think so.. But no one was filming other than the feds.. They should have had sympathetic Media members in every convoy.. filming the whole thing, Yes the feds would have confiscated the video.. But Everyone would know it exists? That said control the message though.. Media is a useful tool. but a tool only.. You must control the message..

7. Was Lavoy's death in vain?..

The Feds and their sheep say yes..

I say no...Why?..

I say the effects of his death are being felt through out the Patriot and Militia movements..

Some of the fake Militias are being exposed...

I see hundreds of young folks being awakened to the murder of Lavoy... We are here discussing the Protest in full and learning from it..

It has awaken the resolve of some of us older Patriots who to be truthful have become stagnant and complacent... (Since the Waco days) Hoping for a political solution..

8. Could Lavoy's life been saved?.. Yes..

If the militia had been in force at the scene and Lavoy had not left safety of the refuge..

But, see Lavoy and Ammon looked at this as a Protest, and the government looked at this as a chance to scare the hell out of protesters or Patriots, and teach the citizens you can only protest when and where WE say you can..

So if it is a Protest treat it as such unarmed and vulnerable.. let's set up the enemy as the one who are acting crazy..

If it is armed confrontation, then pick the battles where you have the high ground and they are in a shaky position both strategically and politically.. These boys need more evidence of Federal land grabbing out there in the media, before they protested Hammonds arrest.. You got to win the media battle too..

But in the end, Lavoy could still be here, but his death will not be in vain..

9. Pcosmar, You have to look deep right now, but if you look are social media, Blogs, even Youtube you can see the tide turning on the FBI and Feds..

Like Waco first impressions were with the government, but over months after the siege the tide turned..

People woke up..

What we don't need, is anyone going off the reservation, and blowing up a federal building in response..
The Feds will do that themselves if they can use it against us.. Dirty tricks is their strong suit..

Those of us around back then seen all the air sucked out of the movement by McVeigh..

10. So what we must do is used this as the lightening rod and let the Feds overreach..

Caution our members to watch out for McVeigh's who attend one meeting and go off on their own.. Was McVeigh a Federal Patsy?.. I don't know, but still wonder..

Temper our response for now right now and plan a good one... One that will rally folks to our side..

Do our homework on the whole thing Bundy's and Hammond are Protesting.. Gather support...

Let them be heavy handed, it's what they do best..

We need to gather info, push the media in the way we want them to go.. "Nudge" as the Alinsky Socialist say..

Play their game better then they do.. Look most of our enemies are not that smart.. They are being led by a few smart people.. Take them down.. Destroy them with their own words.. But it all has to happen fast.. We don't have much time..

11. We need to have our wisest guys and computer geeks scour the net for all info regarding this fed land grab.. and be ready..

Cause they are going to try to vilify us like they did in 1995..

We must not allow history to repeat..

12. We speak with one voice, and we don't let every Tom, Dick and Patriot get in front of a mike somewhere..

We keep Lavoy alive and in the front..

We get folks in the streets for protests.. We pick areas where the Sheriff and locals lean our way at first..

We basically set them up.. Nuff said.. Probably too much said..

Just all Patriots keep your eyes open and let the leadership talk.. Screw the Oathkeepers and the rest.. But before anyone says I am saying let the feds get away with this.. I am not.. I am saying lets be wise and set them up.. We can do this..

Folks,
I have a question and observation to add.

1st. There are not several levels of citizen and rights. What does that mean?
Law enforcements view seems to be:
1. If you do not follow my orders I will kill you.
2. If you run, I believe your are trying to get to better tactical position and I will kill you.
3. If you move as instructed or not instructed I will kill you, I was in fear for my life, I thought he had a weapon even though he did not.
4, I could not afford to wait to see what he had in his hand, it was a cell phone or a wallet and I was in fear for my life.
5. I could not afford to wait to see if the weapon was real or an airsoft toy, I was in fear for my life so I killed him, even though we have open carry in the state and possessing a firearm in the open is lawful.

Folks, here is my question. Since the above is all it takes for law enforcement to kill you even when you have not committed a crime or are not armed. What happens if the civilians start using the same rules for engagement?
He had a gun in his hand, I was afraid for my life!
That would become anarchy. So either there needs to be accountability for their actions, or sooner or later it will become extremely dangerous.

BTW about 2 months ago in PA. Domestic call, the guys is armed, they tell him to drop the gun, he turns his back to the officers and starts to walk away. One deputy opens fire firing 6 shots hits him in the shoulder. The civilian turns and returns fire with one round from his .270 deer rifle striking the officer in the side. The officer dies in the hospital. A few hours later they find the guy walking on the road with a gunshot in his shoulder. They have charged him with murder.

Is it murder when the cop opens fire first?

http://www.wtae.com/news/officer-sh...-dispute-in-westmoreland-county/36701688

Greywolf.

Point 6...there were two cell phones recording the ambush. They were seized by LE and haven't been seen since.

5.56
I expect it will soon become very dangerous for LE if they continue to operate in the same militaristic manner.

Lavoy's family said within the past couple of days that his death is not the end, but only the beginning of a new awakening.

Let's make it so.

We have much work to do gentlemen.

Yea I know about the cell phones, I wonder if they'll ever turn up?.. Let me ask your opinion.. If Lavoy and the boys had had a actual media crew in the convoy.. Would the feds have been so quick to make the "Video" disappear?

I said film the first time, Showing my age lol..

And to add I back up on your comment to 5.56.. I think the we have a lot of work to do.. I believe we will turn this around as long as the toothless fake Patriots are pushed aside.. You know when I joined the Oathkeepers in 09 I had high hopes.. They have done nothing but disappoint..

According to Shawna Cox...

The original plan was to divide the protesters in half. One half was to meet some of the locals in Burns and everyone would head out in a large convoy with many vehicles. A couple of vehicles were to be out front to warn the rest if there was any danger ahead.

Mark McConnel who had only "been there a couple of days" aggressively argued against this plan.

He said all they needed was Lavoys truck and his jeep. He also pushed them to leave early before the locals in town were ready. Some of these locals were stopped out on the road by LE and ordered to turn back.

Yea I have seen the dude on YouTube running his mouth about things..

Can someone explain to me, why anyone would listen to this Mark McConnel guy?

I have seen the guy speak on youtube sounds like a moron..

Is this the infiltrator? If not how did the new guy wield so much influence?

The Large Convoy plan was a smart plan..

I don't know if it has been posted before, but here is the video of Mark McConnell telling all sorts of lies.. The nice thing is in the comment section he gets shown as a liar..

https://youtu.be/JxJJKgX_2iY

https://youtu.be/yUaclghK_Iw

https://youtu.be/RufpU8FNIvE

Guy talking about McConnell

https://youtu.be/9D730sM9bY4

More people thinking this guy is a CI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4te2VeiZmhg