AWRM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159249
03/08/2016 12:13 PM
03/08/2016 12:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting

Video shows two camera angles of LaVoy Finicum shooting In a video shown at a Deschutes County Sheriff’s Office press conference today, the aerial FBI video of the LaVoy Finicum shooting has been synched with a cellphone video Shauna Cox recorded from within Finicum’s truck.

Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive
March 08, 2016

BEND – An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Finicum and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday.

The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five unnamed agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department. Inspector General Michael Horowitz is leading the independent inquiry.

The remarkable disclosure came as a team of local investigators released findings that two state troopers shot Finicum three times in the back during the chaotic scene at a police roadblock Jan. 26. One bullet pierced his heart, an autopsy showed.

A prosecutor ruled the fatal shooting was legally justified, saying state law allows use of deadly force when officers believe a person is about to seriously injure or kill someone. Finicum kept moving his hands toward a pocket that contained a loaded handgun. Although he was shot from behind, Finicum had a trooper in front of him armed with a Taser who was thought to be in danger.

Robert "LaVoy" Finicum was a leader in the 41-day armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife refuge. He was shot and killed Jan. 26, 2016. FBI said he was reaching for a gun when he was shot. Others call his death a murder.

Finicum, 54, an Arizona rancher, was one of the leaders of the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns.

Investigators gave no details to explain why the one FBI agent, a member of the Hostage Rescue Team, wouldn't report the two shots. They also didn't indicate what his four colleagues on the team did to warrant investigation other than saying it was related to conduct after the shooting.

"The question of who fired these shots has not been resolved," said Greg Bretzing, special agent in charge of the FBI in Portland. The federal agency is cooperating with the inspector general's investigation, he said at a news conference.

The revelation is certain to inflame suspicions about Finicum's death and shake confidence in the FBI, which came under intense fire for botched handling of violent sieges at Ruby Ridge in Idaho and Waco, Texas.

Some supporters have claimed Finicum was shot while surrendering, that he was unarmed and that he was shot nine times. The sheriff in neighboring Grant County, Glenn Palmer, described the police operation as an "ambush."

Finicum's family said in a statement a month ago that he was "executed in cold blood" and accused police agencies of deliberately misleading the public about what happened.

But investigators found that Oregon State Police and the FBI planned for days how to arrest the occupation leaders peacefully.

Investigators said they intend to release police reports, interview transcripts, photographs, the autopsy report and new video to allow the public to evaluate the police findings in Finicum's death. They didn't release the names of the involved troopers and FBI agents.

The shooting happened after police stopped a Jeep and a truck carrying the key organizers of the occupation along a remote stretch of U.S. 395 north of Burns.

Finicum was driving the truck that carried carried Ryan C. Bundy, 43, Ryan W. Payne, 32, Shawna Cox, 59, and Victoria Sharp, 18. In the Jeep behind them was driver Mark McConnell, 37, Brian D. Cavalier, 44, and Ammon Bundy, 40, the public face of the occupation. They were bound for a community meeting 100 miles north of the refuge in John Day.

Officer statements and cellphone video taken by Cox from inside the truck showed that Finicum repeatedly ignored police orders, first at the traffic stop and then after he crashed trying to elude officers. He nearly ran over an FBI agent before stalling in a roadside snowbank.

What happened in just seconds after that crash could lead to criminal charges against the FBI agents.

Cox's video showed that one shot hit the truck's left rear passenger window as Finicum stepped out. At the time, Finicum appeared to have his hands at least at shoulder height.

Investigators later established that the bullet entered the truck through the roof before shattering the window and concluded it was fired by an FBI agent. Another bullet from the same FBI agent apparently went wild and missed the truck altogether, the investigation showed.


Finicum then moved toward the back of his truck and out of view of Cox's phone, but she was still able to record what was said outside the truck.

Officers repeatedly ordered Finicum to get on the ground, according to the video. The investigation found that Finicum first faced a state trooper taking cover in nearby trees, then turned toward two troopers advancing from the highway.

Those two state troopers fired when Finicum turned back toward the trooper in the trees while reaching for a loaded 9 mm Ruger semi-automatic pistol inside his jacket, investigators said.

Finicum was struck from behind in the left shoulder, the left upper back and the right lower back, a state autopsy found. He died at the scene.

One of those two troopers moments earlier had fired at Finicum's truck as it barreled toward the police roadblock. That trooper hit the truck with three rounds, investigators concluded.

"All six shots fired by the Oregon State Police, the three into the truck and the three that struck Mr. Finicum, are justified," said Malheur County District Attorney Dan Norris in a prepared statement. He said the shots were "in fact, necessary."

Although Norris cleared the troopers of wrongdoing, the entire operation remains under a cloud with the disclosure of possible misconduct by the FBI agents. Law enforcement officials tried to blunt the impact, noting that investigating officers discovered and reported the alleged cover-up.

Just days before announcing the investigation results, hundreds of people gathered for weekend demonstrations scheduled in at least 35 states to protest Finicum's death. They repeated claims that police murdered the occupation spokesman and condemned what many said is the federal government's renewed effort to silence self-described patriots and militia members.

They were reacting in part to 12 more arrests last week related to the 2014 armed standoff in Nevada involving rancher Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon and Ryan Bundy. So far, 37 people face federal charges related to the Oregon and Nevada standoffs.

The Finicum shooting investigation showed that the FBI and state police jointly planned the operation when they learned on Sunday, Jan. 24, through media reports that many of the occupation leaders would be on the road to John Day two days later.

State troopers were tasked with conducting the traffic stop at a pre-designated area, near a U.S. Forest Service road where police forces could wait out of sight. A squad of FBI agents and troopers was assigned to set up the road block roughly two miles north to contain any fleeing suspects and to stop other motorists from driving into the operation.

The teams expected Finicum to be armed. He was photographed repeatedly at the refuge with a holstered handgun.

Investigators determined that five of the eight people in the Jeep and truck carried loaded handguns. Detectives also recovered three rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammunition from the vehicles.

Ammon Bundy didn't mention the weapons in a jailhouse interview last week with The Oregonian/OregonLive. "We were headed with weapons of laptops, projectors and PA systems,'' Bundy said. "We were going peacefully to a community meeting.''

The reports showed that Bundy wasn't armed. He, Cavalier and McConnell surrendered without incident.

Finicum stopped his 2015 Dodge pickup a short distance away. Payne, the tactical leader of the occupation, surrendered after a state trooper fired a plastic tipped 40mm pepper spray round that struck the truck's canopy. The other four people stayed in the idling pickup and Finicum launched into a back-and-forth shouting match with troopers, the investigation found.

He told troopers he was leaving to reach the sheriff in John Day. He referred to Palmer six times at the initial stop.

"The sheriff is waiting for us," he said at one point. "I'm going over to meet the sheriff in Grant County," he said moments later.

He taunted troopers to shoot him or otherwise let him go to Palmer. The sheriff has become something of a national hero among anti-government protesters for appearing to support the armed occupiers and opposing federal government control of public land.

"You want my blood on your hands?" Finicum shouted out the window of his truck.

Finicum then sped away, hitting up to 70 mph, the investigative reports showed. Two FBI pickup trucks and one from the state police were parked in his path down the highway, with agents and troopers arrayed around them.

After Finicum crashed into the snowbank and left his truck, state troopers told him at least three times to get on the ground, according to the video. The trooper with the Taser stepped through the snow toward Finicum.

"He was attempting to control or subdue Mr. Finicum with less lethal force after Mr. Finicum refused orders to get on the ground," according to a prepared statement by Deschutes County Sheriff Shane Nelson, who led the investigation into the shooting.

Finicum repeatedly challenged police to shoot him as he moved toward them.

"You're going to have to shoot me," he said and was told again to get on the ground, the video showed.

"In the midst of that command, Mr. Finicum grabs his jacket with his left hand and reaches with his right hand for his gun," Nelson said.

That's when the two troopers behind Finicum fired the fatal shots.

"Mr. Finicum repeatedly and knowingly made choices that put him in this situation," Harney County District Attorney Tim Colahan said in a prepared statement. "It was not the outcome that any of us wanted but one he, alone, is responsible for."

-- Les Zaitz

Quote
Jeanette Finicum, the rancher’s widow, said in a statement Tuesday that she would “seek justice in a different court,” OPB reported.

“I can hardly believe that a team of qualified law officers could look at the facts in this case and say that no criminal laws were violated,” Jeanette told OPB. “Many people including my lawyers, have tried to prepare me for this — ‘be strong,’ ‘accept this with peace’ — but I don’t think anything could prepare me to accept what is so clearly a finding that challenges the Constitution that my husband died defending.”


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159250
03/08/2016 01:27 PM
03/08/2016 01:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Video shows two camera angles of LaVoy Finicum shooting In a video shown at a Deschutes County Sheriff’s Office press conference today, the aerial FBI video of the LaVoy Finicum shooting has been synched with a cellphone video Shauna Cox recorded from within Finicum’s truck.

https://youtu.be/YWLHiU8gYWY


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159251
03/08/2016 01:27 PM
03/08/2016 01:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,151
D 057 Btn 47 FF
T
The Greywolf Offline
Senior Member
The Greywolf  Offline
Senior Member
T
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,151
D 057 Btn 47 FF
As we have always seen some of the truth will slowly creep out.. It will change and change to closer to what really happened, something more in line with what we all suspected... At least until it is covered up by Congress, or the Feds like Waco in some circus show investigation....

I thought he was shot 9 times?...This shows 3...I wonder how long till that is proven false and sound edited also..


I believe in absolute Freedom, as little interference from any government as possible...And I'll fight any man trying to take that away from me.

Jimmy Greywolf
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159252
03/08/2016 01:41 PM
03/08/2016 01:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,253
WI Northwoods
D
drjarhead Offline
Senior Member
drjarhead  Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,253
WI Northwoods
They will all get promoted.
Same as always.
The wages for doing the King's work and eliminating any perceived threat to the crown.


There is a lesson to be taken from that vid, however, and it is not a new one by any means.

They don't have the balls to take on a force that has anywhere near parity with them. Either in numbers or weaponry.

Their strategy and tactics require coming in force against a vastly outnumbered foe and executing them. That's the only way for them to accomplish their goal.



The War for America
Fight Everywhere
III
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159253
03/08/2016 01:47 PM
03/08/2016 01:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,151
D 057 Btn 47 FF
T
The Greywolf Offline
Senior Member
The Greywolf  Offline
Senior Member
T
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,151
D 057 Btn 47 FF
+ 1000.. drjarhead...


I believe in absolute Freedom, as little interference from any government as possible...And I'll fight any man trying to take that away from me.

Jimmy Greywolf
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159254
03/08/2016 01:50 PM
03/08/2016 01:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,253
WI Northwoods
D
drjarhead Offline
Senior Member
drjarhead  Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,253
WI Northwoods
It seems they never end up taking anyone on who knows WTF they are doing.

Just MO.

Choose the time, the place, the weather and the means yourself.



The War for America
Fight Everywhere
III
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159255
03/08/2016 04:33 PM
03/08/2016 04:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Breacher Offline
Moderator
Breacher  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Jeezus F Christ, that was a straight up curbside execution. No ambiguity whatsoever.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159256
03/09/2016 12:25 AM
03/09/2016 12:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Quote
"So what we have is a bunch of folks protesting the government, then the government investigating the government protesters, and then the government accused of covering up the investigation of the government protesters, and then the government investigating their own coverup in the investigation of the government protesters," Arnold said. (Ammon's attorney)
The Oregonian published an article contrasting the claims made by Finicum’s supporters that he was murdered to the claims made by investigators.

One of the claims made by his supporters is that he had been shot on his left side, which is why he reached down towards his waistband.

But investigators cleared that up by saying they only shot him in the back three times.

http://media.oregonlive.com/data/images/2016/03/08/Lavoy_Finicum-01.jpg

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/ol...n/photo/2016/03/08/-97090b7f7fe195a7.jpg

Photo of "Lavoys weapon" https://twitter.com/LesZaitz/status/707291105616797696/photo/1


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159257
03/09/2016 03:11 AM
03/09/2016 03:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,401
In the Mountains
N
North Force Offline
Senior Member
North Force  Offline
Senior Member
N
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,401
In the Mountains
Well that "trooper" in the tree-line with the Taser can been seen in the videos re-holstering his sidearm - I believe right after LaVoy reaches down to his side. I'd have to re-watch it again.


"To achieve One World Government it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, their loyalty to family traditions and national identification."
~ Brock Chisholm, when director of UN World Health Organization
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159258
03/09/2016 03:24 AM
03/09/2016 03:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
One of the state shooters claimed Lavoy "had the drop" on him, making him "feel very uncomfortable" so he had to shoot him in the back.

Yeah, I buy that one.

Update:

Take a close look at all the photos.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-st..._shot_3_times_in.html#incart_maj-story-1


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159259
03/09/2016 03:45 AM
03/09/2016 03:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,151
D 057 Btn 47 FF
T
The Greywolf Offline
Senior Member
The Greywolf  Offline
Senior Member
T
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,151
D 057 Btn 47 FF
I looked closely at the truck more shots were fired at it then they are claiming..

I see at least two exit holes in the right rear of the camper shell and one entrance hole below those.. (But it is a small picture, I didn't see a picture from the rear of the vehicle, so I may be wrong)..

I didn't count broken windows because non lethal may have done some of that damage..

I counted one entrance in drivers side rear door..

two on front end and one in roof..

We know at least one of the windows was broken by gun fire...

but it looks to me like many more shots were fired then the video shows sounds for..


I believe in absolute Freedom, as little interference from any government as possible...And I'll fight any man trying to take that away from me.

Jimmy Greywolf
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159260
03/09/2016 04:16 AM
03/09/2016 04:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Reading one of the reports out of Oregon...

Not only did the fbi HRT fail to report they had fired, they also cleaned up all their shell casings before the investigators arrived on scene.

Per the report the hrt uses "special" ammunition that is readily identifiable as being different from that of OSP.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159261
03/10/2016 02:46 AM
03/10/2016 02:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Quote
A newly-released synced video of of the killing of Lavoy Finicum makes several things clear:
1.) The OSP and FBI started shooting before Finicim exited the pickup truck. (Note the timing of when the driver’s-side rear window is shattered by the FBI 5.56 round that hit the roof and wounded Ryan Bundy.)
2.) Finicum exited with his hands up.
3.) After Finicum was shot in the back and fell, dying, and even though there was no sign of resistance from the surviving passengers, the officers continued to shoot through the side windows, camper shell windows, and windshield of the pickup with pepper gas rounds, and possibly some pistol or rifle rounds.

And The Oregonian now reports that the FBI HRT team apparently conspired to conceal evidence and get their story straight about two shots that were fired by FBI sniper(s), wounding Ryan Bundy, and startling Finicum, putting him in stark fear of his life. The FBI HRT agents all lied in sworn statements, on two subsequent occasions. That is now an indisputable fact. When will these agents be suspended from duty and prosecuted?

To me, all of this looks like grounds for multi-million dollar excessive force and wrongful death lawsuits! – JWR
In addition:

At the initial stop, fbi fired a 40mm round into the truck when Ryan Payne put his hands out the window. They also had more than one lazer on Lavoys head. THAT is what caused him to say "What are you going to do, just shoot me?...Well, shoot me then." The fbi's overreaction is what caused Lavoy to become agitated and make the decision to run for it. Which, IMO is exactly what they wanted him to do...run straight into the ambush.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159262
03/10/2016 03:49 AM
03/10/2016 03:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
WND EXCLUSIVE
'Set up assassination' alleged in FBI kill shots
'How are We The People to trust them the next time we interact with them?'


Bob Unruh


The family of Robert LaVoy Finicum, 55, who was killed by police in connection with a protest occupation of federal property in Oregon, have lashed out at the government’s official justification for his death, charging it was a “set up assassination.”

Critics point out police investigators in Bend, Oregon, said one FBI agent was suspected of lying about the shooting. And Finicum’s supporters suspect four other agents may have helped cover up misbehavior.

“They shot my husband, they left him lying in the snowbank – no medical assistance, no charges, no arraignment, no preliminary hearing, no indictment, and no trial by a jury – and should they just walk free? It just is not right,” Jeanette Finicum said in a statement released only hours after the FBI and Oregon state police presented their arguments.

“The consolation I have is that hundreds of thousands of Americans have seen and know the truth and believe as I do that my husband was murdered ‘intentionally, deliberately and with malice,'” she said. “My lawyer has assured me that we will seek justice in a different court, under different circumstances – and I look forward to the day when these men do face a jury that is unbiased enough to return a fair verdict.”

Finicum was killed Jan. 26 during the 41-day occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon by ranchers and supporters protesting what they described as overreaching prosecution of two ranchers over a wildfire.

Oregon State Police and the FBI set up a roadblock at which Finicum and Ryan Bundy were shot.

The sheriff’s office released a video that showed both the view from a helicopter and from inside the car Finicum was driving.

A number of people have been kept in solitary confinement since their arrests for the standoff on charges ranging from impeding officers to intimidation and threats.

When stopped, Finicum shouted at officers: "I'm going to go meet the sheriff. Do as you damn well please."

At one point he said: "Do you want blood on your hands? Get it done, because we got people to see and places to go."

Video shows him getting out his vehicle and taking a few steps. He apparently raises his hands before multiple shots are fired.

"The occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge has been a long and traumatic episode for the citizens of Harney County and the members of the Burns Paiute tribe," Billy Williams, U.S. attorney for the district of Oregon, said in a statement released at the time the arrests were made. "It is a time for healing, reconciliation among neighbors and friends, and allowing for life to get back to normal."

But on Tuesday, law enforcement investigators in Bend held a news conference to say Finicum was shot three times in the back and killed when one bullet pierced his heart. An investigation was focusing on the five FBI agents, whose names were kept concealed. U.S. Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz was leading the inquiry.

A prosecutor ruled Finicum's shooting was justified because state law allows use of deadly force when officers believe a person is about to seriously injury or kill someone.

But the video raised a long list of questions, including why there were additional flurries of shots even minutes after Finicum was shot and killed.

Also, exactly what prompted the officers to let loose a barrage of shots that left, according to a private autopsy, nine bullet wounds.

The Bend investigators said one FBI agent, part of the Hostage Rescue Team, didn't report two shots he fired, and four colleagues were under investigation for conduct relating to events after the shooting.

Jeanette Finicum, while promising a more complete statement after reviewing authorities' claims, was unconvinced by the official statements.

"The purpose of that announcement was for state and federal agencies to continue to lay the foundation of their legal case," she said in the prepared document. "However, they also continue to bring forward selective evidence. As in all such situations there is another side to this story."

She continued: "This was not a traffic stop. It was an ambush with a roadblock placed on a blind curve along a lonely stretch of highway. I am told that in law enforcement and prosecuting circles this is called a 'Deadman's blockade,' and is designed to allow a 'kill stop' which is illegal."

She also rejected claims her husband was "reaching for a gun."

"The FBI's aerial video was of poor quality, edited and provided no audio. Our family asserts that he was shot with both hands up, he was not reaching for anything at the time of the first shot. He was walking with his hands in the air, a symbol of surrender. When he reached down to his left hip he was reacting to the pain of having been shot," she said.

"We have talked with an independent investigator who has stated that the 'video proves a set up assassination.'"


Joseph Rice, the Josephine County, Oregon, coordinator for the volunteer Oathkeepers.com organization and a leader with the Pacific Patriot Network, told WND many questions remain unanswered.

"How are 'We the People' to trust them the next time we interact with them?" he told WND.

"You've got agents willfully covering up the facts. That seems to claw at the integrity on the federal side of the investigation," he said, calling for an independent review.

He explained that during the standoff he had spoken with both sides about how to resolve the disagreement and prevent a Waco or Ruby Ridge, two federal law-enforcement disasters that resulted in multiple deaths.

Rice pointed out that at least one of the individuals in the vehicle at the time of the shooting never was interviewed by investigators, who on Tuesday released details of their investigation.

He said the explanations fall short. Authorities, Rice said, claimed Finicum was shot three times in the back, yet he fell backward into the snow.

And he confirmed the family's autopsy concluded Finicum was shot nine times.

Why, too, Rice asked, didn't authorities simply arrange to arrest Finicum when he was meeting with the sheriff, whom he was going to see at the time?

"The FBI has a very structured escalation of force scale," he explained. "I don't see how any of the law enforcement followed it. … To employ that amount of lethality, I believe, is unwarranted, especially as he's approaching the road block."

He said an analysis of the video also shows snow "flicking up" around Finicum after he was shot and on the ground.

The Washington Post reported the Deschutes County sheriff's office claimed the Oregon state troopers were justified in firing their six shots.

But Greg Bretzing of the FBI said the question of who, other than state troopers, fired shots "has not been resolved."

Even while the two sides were still at odds, Michael Savage, conservative radio host and author of many best-selling books, called Finicum's shooting "murder."

"I'm demanding an investigation," he said. "I'm demanding the attorney general send a task force into Oregon."

And if the feds won't, the United Nations ought to look into it, Savage said.

Finicum had served as a spokesman for the protesters occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns. The occupation was centered on a dispute with federal officials over land rights, sparked by what many saw as the unfair imposition of a five-year, U.S. Justice Department-pressed prison sentence for a local father and son, Dwight Hammond, 73, and Steven Hammond, 46.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159263
03/10/2016 05:28 AM
03/10/2016 05:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,151
D 057 Btn 47 FF
T
The Greywolf Offline
Senior Member
The Greywolf  Offline
Senior Member
T
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,151
D 057 Btn 47 FF
Slow Motion Video of the first shot that was aimed at Finicum when his hands were up...He may have been hit.. Video shows Lavoy exit the truck hands up the you hear a shot drivers side window shatters... Proves they lied when they said he exited after the window shattered..

https://youtu.be/uH4PInHFfOc


I believe in absolute Freedom, as little interference from any government as possible...And I'll fight any man trying to take that away from me.

Jimmy Greywolf
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159264
03/10/2016 12:07 PM
03/10/2016 12:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,253
WI Northwoods
D
drjarhead Offline
Senior Member
drjarhead  Offline
Senior Member
D
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,253
WI Northwoods
I agree that it was an ambush.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.



The War for America
Fight Everywhere
III
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159265
03/10/2016 01:18 PM
03/10/2016 01:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Breacher Offline
Moderator
Breacher  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Oh, sheesh, Michael Savage wants to call the UN like its 9-1-1?

Let's just get the names of the order givers, verify their chain of command that was on site, make enough money available to attract professionals who can handle the job in a public and expeditious manner, then let the world know how American professionals clean house. See how much these freedom haters want to go talking shit and giving the order to kill when it gets out that there are prices on their heads which are high enough to attract professionals, or even better, get some of their own to switch sides.

I am not getting manipulated into a bunch of deadly confrontation BS by some rich loudmouth who wants to talk the talk like he is a leader and he won't throw down any scratch to make snit happen and damn sure won't step up to make his own bones unles he has a badge to hide behind while doing it.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159266
03/21/2016 08:39 AM
03/21/2016 08:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 608
behind enemy lines
N
noname762 Offline
Member
noname762  Offline
Member
N
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 608
behind enemy lines
Well this is only the second time I've seen or read anything new in the past 2 or 3 weeks. So according to several here 2 OSP put 3 rounds into Lavoy's back. This is the first I've heard of that. Five is it are under investigation and could be brought up on charges. I won't be holding my breath. When Horiyuchi blew away Vicki Weaver she was standing BEHIND A DOOR. Not a clear shot but BEHIND A SOLID WOOD DOOR. What happened to him? He was promoted. I still think it was an ambush. That one HRT sharpshooter/sniper who lied about 2 of his shots said he didn't fire then came back and owned up to missing 2 shots. What kind of half baked POS HRT member misses 2 shots?

The FBI can run their cluster flock investigation all they want and like as not nothing will come of it. There will be demotions and promotions but the status quo won't change.
I have had it with being lied to. I will never believe anything the FBI says ever again. Screw the FBI.


Grass fed Beef..it's what's fer supper July 4th.
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159267
06/27/2016 02:33 AM
06/27/2016 02:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Oregon standoff: Case of possible misconduct by FBI in LaVoy Finicum shooting now before grand jury

Maxine Bernstein | The Oregonian/OregonLive June 24, 2016

The federal investigation into an FBI agent's apparent firing of gunshots at Robert "LaVoy" Finicum and the alleged FBI tampering with evidence at the scene has gone to a grand jury.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Charles Gorder Jr. revealed the grand jury hearing in court papers Thursday explaining the government's desire to keep its memorandum about the inspector general's investigation into the FBI's handling of the Jan. 26 shooting out of the hands of defense lawyers.

"The Declaration provides details of an ongoing investigation by the United States Department of Justice, Office of Inspector General, and concerns matters occurring before the grand jury protected from disclosure,'' Gorder wrote to the court. "The Declaration more fully describes to the Court alone the nature of the material which is the subject of defendants' motion to compel and which the government contends should be denied from discovery.''

Gorder had previously asked U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown to allow the criminal division's chief prosecutor in the U.S. Attorney's Office to file a memo under seal and only with the judge concerning the investigation of the FBI agents.

Defense lawyers in the Oregon standoff case have asked the judge to compel the government to turn over the investigative records regarding the FBI's alleged misconduct.

Late Wednesday, Brown said she'd allow prosecutors to file the memo under seal, but ruled it must be shared with defense lawyers. She said, however, that she would allow the government to make further argument why it shouldn't be shared with the defense.

That led to Gorder's expanded legal brief, noting the federal investigation is before a grand jury. Grand juries typically review investigations to determine whether to return criminal indictments.

Defense lawyers have argued that prosecutors must share any evidence that could benefit the defense, including any material that could damage the credibility of a prosecution witness. Federal prosecutors counter that they won't call law enforcement officers involved in the investigation as witnesses in the case, according to court records.

A federal grand jury indicted Ammon Bundy, the leader, and 25 co-defendants on a federal charge of conspiring to impede federal works at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge during the 41-day occupation that ran from Jan. 2 through Feb. 11. Four have pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and one more is expected to do Thursday.

A trial for many of the remaining defendants is set for Sept. 7. Ammon Bundy has said the occupation was held to protest the return to federal prison of two Harney County ranchers and federal control of public land.

Bundy and other key figures were arrested as they were driving from the refuge to a community meeting in John Day on Jan. 26. Finicum, the occupation spokesman, evaded the police stop on U.S. 395 and swerved his truck into a snowbank to avoid an FBI and state police roadblock.

As he emerged from the truck, two shots were fired from an FBI agent with the Hostage Rescue Team, though none of the team members admitted to discharging their firearms, the Deschutes County sheriff alleges.

Oregon investigators concluded that one agent fired twice at the truck, hitting it in the roof and missing on the second shot. A state trooper later described to investigators seeing two rifle casings in the area where the agents were posted. Detectives investigating didn't find the casings, police reports indicated.

Updated June 24, 2016: Defense lawyer Per C. Olson replied to Gorder's filing, saying federal law allows for the court to authorize disclosure of a grand jury matter if it's connected with a judicial proceeding. Olson urged the court to accept the government's memo under seal, but allow defense lawyers access to it.

Gorder files a response.

Judge Brown rules prosecutors haven't met the bar to file the document only with the court, so must file it sealed, and share it with defense lawyers.

The practice of filing legal briefs out of the eye of one party in a pending criminal proceeding, the judge wrote, is "strongly disfavored.''

-- Maxine Bernstein


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting #159268
06/27/2016 12:03 PM
06/27/2016 12:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Breacher Offline
Moderator
Breacher  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Anna Brown is getting to be something of a wild card in these proceedings. Nobody really knows which way she will go in a lot of stuff. She had been traditionally prosecution friendly at every turn, but it got to the point that the government side had just gotten so blatant about stuff that she figured it would also make her look bad, and that's where she starts shutting stuff down. She knows the old drug war rules that if you are going to play dirty, it has to be kept out of the courtroom. The new breed of feds want to play dirty AND rake you over the coals in court for it. That's where this stuff gets offensive to those in the legal professions because it makes their roles meaningless.

I had some dealing with her in years past, and I don't think anyone walked out of that with what they really wanted. Don't fool yourselves though, she is a statist through and through.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.

.
©>
©All information posted on this site is the private property of the individual author and AWRM.net and may not be reproduced without permission. © 2001-2020 AWRM.net All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1