Time to Curb Rise in Deadly Paramilitary Police Raids

Cato Institute

Cato study and interactive map document bungled SWAT-style raids

Interactive map: http://www.cato.org/raidmap

WASHINGTON -- The last 25 years have seen a 1,300 percent increase in the number of paramilitary raids on American homes. The vast majority of these are to serve routine drug warrants, including for offenses as trivial as marijuana possession, according to a new study by the Cato Institute.

"These raids, 40,000 per year by one estimate, are needlessly subjecting nonviolent drug offenders, bystanders, and wrongly targeted civilians to the terror of having their homes invaded while they're sleeping," writes Cato policy analyst Radley Balko, "usually by teams of heavily armed paramilitary units dressed not as peace officers, but as soldiers."

"Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America" provides a legal, historical, and policy background explaining the trend. Balko offers a critique of "no-knock" and "short-notice" raids, explains how such confrontational tactics cause violence rather than lessening risks, and offers recommendations for reform.

The paper has an appendix of nearly 150 examples of documented botched raids, including: the case of Alberto Sepulveda, an 11-year-old boy shot in the head during a bungled raid in Modesto, California; Clayton Helriggle, a 23-year-old shot and killed when an inexperienced SWAT team raided a house of college-aged men guilty of recreational marijuana use; Sal Culosi, an optometrist in Fairfax, Virginia mistakenly killed by a SWAT team that had come to his home to arrest him for betting on sports games; and Mississippi police officer Ron Jones, shot and killed when Cory Maye, a man asleep at home with his daughter and who had no criminal record, mistook Jones' raid team for criminal intruders.

Balko has found more than three dozen examples of completely innocent people killed in mistaken raids, twenty cases of nonviolent offenders who've been killed, and more than a dozen cases of police officers killed by suspects or mistakenly targeted civilians who thought the police were criminal intruders.

Accompanying Balko's report, Cato is releasing also an interactive Google Maps application that plots nearly 300 examples of mistaken raids since the mid-1980s. Users can zoom in to street level, and sort raids by their end result (death of an innocent, death of a police officer, etc.), and the year of the raid. The map is available at http://www.cato.org/raidmap .

Balko concludes that these policing tactics "bring unnecessary violence and provocation to nonviolent drug offenders, many of whom were guilty only of misdemeanors, they terrorize innocents when police mistakenly target the wrong residence, and they have resulted in dozens of needless deaths and injuries, not only of drug offenders, but also of police officers, children, bystanders, and innocent suspects."

White Paper: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6476

I went over the entire Interactive Map, & it simply serves to assure me that my original convictions about these "S.W.A.T.T."[Special Weapons Armored Tactical Teams]is SPOT ON. In the VAST majority(spell that 99.9% of the time) this type of Tactical SOP is UTTERLY & ABSOLUTELY UNCALLED FOR!

Now, that said, there are DEFINATELY exceptions. Such as the L.A. S.W.A.T.T. They have, indeed, BY deeds[NOTE: they are not once mentioned in ANY of the Maps errors] proved themselves BOTH needed & PROFESSIONAL,(to the HIGHTEST DEGREE). When you're dealing with the likes of MS13; Asian Mobs; Russian Mafia; etc., (not to mention "Al Queda" Ops); well, you HAVE to take a more Militaristic tact.

But, generally speaking, (especially in the SMALL TOWN dynamic), S.W.A.T.T. is not the needed formatt. Better training of the Detective & Investigative Branch [AND the street Officers] of the Police Dept.'s is the ANSWER!

BUT! There I_S a SERIOUS WARNING here for A_L_L of us! Note that these S.W.A.T.T. Officers are NOT necessarily "cherries". They are USUALLY experienced Street officers, or ex-mil types.

Now, if men with a GREAT DEAL of DAILY experience with BOTH firearms, as well as leathal circumstances, can make these types of assnine mistakes, then what are YOU & I going to do under the stress of COMBAT...S_E_R_I_O_U_S LEATHAL activity?

To avoid such erroneous activities, the old saw: "BLOOD, SWEAT, & TEARS on the practice field, avoids BLOOD, SWEAT & TEARS on the battle field" applies! PRACTICE! PRACTICE! PRATICE!...and, btw, did I mention PRACTICE?

JUST THINK IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU

SWAT is unConstitutional no matter what the results are. They are a paramilitary army amongst us.

I'm not too worried about citizens with guns in stressful situations since they have less then 1/2 the lethal "accidents" police have when using firearms.

Remember the kid in FLA, I think it was last summer?

Supposedly some snitch tried to make good with prosecutors by giving up a "drug dealer".

Police looked up alleged drug dealer's record, it was clean, but he had a CPL, so instead of knocking on his door with a search warrant, they went DIRECTLY to SWAT.

SWAT busts down door, twenty something kid had a pistol in his hand and probably a load in his pants when they ventilated him. They found something like 10 ounces of marijuana. Kid is murdered for what?

SWAT is unConstitutional, and the current trend is towards developing SWAT teams in more and more cities and using them more and more for increasingly unecessary missions. Hell, they even have a cool TV show, called Dallas SWAT. I've watched it, it made me sick. There wasn't a single situation that called for SWAT in the episode I watched. All the people they arrested had a OH SHIT look on their face and looked about as harmless as children, even if they were guilty of some petty crime.

Maybe for prisons SWAT is great, but DW hit the nail on the head. If they call in SWAT, it should be the last resort. IOW, SWAT is there to kill, and that's it. This way SWAT doesn't have to worry about why they're there, if they kill some poor kid because a snitch sold him out and the cops were skeered of his CPL.

Here's another one that seems, well, just a little excessive:

One student said she was in the middle of shampooing someone's hair when law enforcement barged in and served a search warrant.

"A frightening sight to see all these cars and suv's coming over here this morning and blocking everything off," says neighboring worker Cheryl Bankert.

Bankert watched from next-door to the building that law enforcement raided early Wednesday morning.

She watched people wearing guns and bullet proof vests wondering what happened.

"It really scared me because I didn't know what was going on over there," Bankert says.

What was going on was the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Inspector Generals serving a search warrant for a pell grant fraud.

Don't laugh. A pissed off beautician is a terrible thing to behold.

Onward and upward,
airforce

I had them show up at my house when I was a kid. Scared the crap outta me and my parents. They say they thought I was breaking and entering. Cop saw me enter with a key, and it was a cop that knew damned well that I lived in that house (same guy that harassed me all the time about my Mustang).

I came to the door with red dots on my chest (I know they don't really do that anymore except in the movies, but they did in the 1980's), snipers up in my tree house, all that mess in my front yard. They never apologized. They just chided me for looking suspicious.

And from what I can tell, the police have only gotten worse since then.

About the only thing they did right on this last one on my was to knock and ask me to come out. Otherwise it migh have had a different outcome for them.

SWAT is needed sometimes sure. but when we put civian polcie on the streets in military uniform, we are asking for trouble. most times these situations resolve themselves when the suspect gets tired. If every lawful citizen was armed and part of the militia, crime would fall to all time lows. no need for SWAT. you can go back to the late seventies and eighties and find the abuse of power by some law enforcment agencies. nineties revealed the greatest failure of these agencies. Freedom isn't free folks stand up now before it is to late.

What ever happened to the term "Peace Officer"?

Peace officer retierd 25 years ago and Nazi gestopo took over!

Yea, I had that basic run in with a "peace officer" Ha! I was in a vehicle that was stopped to help a guy who ran in the ditch. I don't know if this cop was having a bad day, but he was extremely hostile and treated everyone at the site like they were not as good as him. I don't mean like he was afraid for his safety. He was just trying to get some one to show any amount of anger. I was polite and even attemped to shake his hand. His reply was to call us low lifes and refuse to shake hands with anyone. This suprised me because most of the people there look like normal everyday people. I remember how his attitude seem to rub off on the other police officers that showed up. All in military style uniforms. Maybe they knew that some of us were involved in the movement.

Seems they are denying these accused their right to face their accusers if they have two in the chest and one in the head.

I guess in 2006 looking suspicious is a crime punishable by death withno right to appeal.

Oh NO! Grewolf, you're SOOOOOOO, SOOOOO, wrong!

You have E_V_E_R_Y "RIGHT" to appeal...just as they crash in your door, & are lifting their sights up to your chest, you can APPEAL until you're red in the head!

APPEAL that they N_O_T shoot you...that is.

good one, I stand corrected

I have been following the raid in Atlanta, It seems that warrants are rubber stamped, with NO investigation. Just when I thought that was as bad as it gets, the New York shooting happens. This time none of the victims were armed. Still LEOs try to justify the unjustifyable.

You know, I've been concerned about something we've discussed, & fussed, & created MIStrust, about for awhile...but pcosmar (what the Begeebees does [bu]THAT[bu] stand for!?)brings it back to the table, so let's consider what we've got going on here in our PRECIOUS([bu]NOT[bu] faceciously stated)Country...the SERIOUS PROBLEM of our LEO's & their lack of balance & discretion...(not to mention Constitutionality).

What's [bu]REALLY[bu] going on?

I mean, let's face it...if the [bu]HIGH[bu] percentage of [bu]"Goat Fu*ks"...botched & wrong I.D.'s[bu] OPS were [bu]REALLY[bu] simply "Murphy", then that percentage would carry over into the Military percentages...and it would be easily mathimatically corolate with the two statistics, & therefore, be imperiacally demonstrated.

[bui]NOT[bui] the case! Sooooooooo, WTF??? What's causing out LEO Community to be SOOOOO out of balance...and [bu]DEADLY[bu]???

Any explains out there B4 I give my 2Cents worth?

I've got news for all of you. With the new breed of young punks that are being hired as cops and military you have but one choice. This new breed has an axe to grind, and are willing to use you to grind it on. The older folks are leaving at an alarming rate. Remember that 29 palms report. 45% of us military will fire on america citizens. Hell i even corrected one the other day when he said he would turn his own family in.

PATRIOT...Are you speaking from first hand knowlege? It sounds so, and if you ARE, I'd like to hear more about these "sorts of punks" that are comming into our LEO's & Military.

Can you give some points or places for reference?

I've read several Articles that state that after the Northridge Earthquake, & the LA Riots, that the Gangs (Latinos & Blacks) made an agreement, & have begun infiltrating the LEO's...also the Chicago Gangs are said to be BOTH infil'n the LEO's as well as running for Offices in the City Political System. Of COURSE they're being VERY discrete, & NOT announcing their "colors"...

ANY body got any HARD INTEL on these developments?

In my local area that used to be a sleepy little town with 6 Deputies and a Sheriff. ALL were good people and never violated anyones rights. The Sheriff himself saw to it. Now the Sheriff has gone and the deputies have all been replaced but two. We have 15 now all together. Most hve still got the tit milk running down thier chin. All these new ones are arrogant and very disrespectful. They have done dynamic entries that had never been done before. All the older people are leaving town. The incident i was talking about was a 22 year old that said that he would turn his own family in. I told him it wouldn't do any good cause if he did it in front of me i would kill him and when the cop got there i would do him too for showing up.

My area used to have a small force too, Now they have 20 something deputies and have sign agreements with the major city to the west and all the surrounding counties to allow them to help in critical situations including drug raids and any gun raids. We also just received major drug intradiction status, means money, check points and raids and federal help when needed. Yea this is going to get out of hand.

GOING TO..........?

Yea going to, they usually test these tactics in smaller towns, then move into larger areas. I know they been doing raids and the others in larger cities. But if you think of the scale verses population and fiqure what force size would be needed to acheive this scale in larger areas, that's where they are headed.

It's already out of hand. A few weeks ago I saw a Fox News report stating that gang membership and gang violence and other activities has drastically increased on our military bases (ie US armed forces has a growing gang membership.) Soon large sections of our domestic military (Guard and Reserves) will be staffed and run by gangs. Do we really want the street gang banger to have the use of a tank or M-60? They will bring a whole new meaning to drive by shooting.

I will see if I can find the report.

It's because the kids are taught the most important thing is money and being cool. They know nothing about the history of the states and they don't care. Sad thing is it's our own fault and we have to fix it.We have allowed it to happen.

I agree. Which is why I do my best to undo the brain washing the school system is doing to my boy. I'm doing my best to make sure he knows what is important.

Well now you have a similar situation here in Wilmington, NC where some stormtroopers from the New Hanover County Sheriff's Department "Special Squad" attempting to serve a warrant kicked in a door when a guy went to answer it. They shot him several times including one in the head fatally then shot his dog to death too. Granted he was probably a genuine criminal suspect (he was wanted for stealing Playstation 3's and Assault) but he didn't deserve to be executed by a bunch of thugs nor did his dog. He was unarmed. This kind of thing is getting out of control and the militarization of the police, including their INTEL departments that keep files on all kind of folks, including Patriots, needs to be reigned in.

I was cleaning the interior and exterior of my Camaro last summer with some paper towel, Windex, and a can of Never Dull and emerged from out of my car seat with the can of Never Dull in my hand when a police officer rolled up and asked what I was doing around that car. I replied that I was cleaning my car up. He asked to see my ID. I told him I didn't have to show him any ID and furthermore he was on my property and not invited. He kept asking for my ID and I kept saying no. He said that I looked suspicious with my car. I asked him if he had ever seen anyone trying to steal a car with a can of Never Dull, a bottle of Windex, and some paper towel. He got frustrated and just left. The sad thing is that now the Nazi Supreme Court has ruled that you have to "show your papers" on request by any cop for any reason anywhere at anytime. We are living in Nazi Germany now. The only thing for them to do next is to start putting people in camps.

I ran into this problem almost constantly several years ago, when I was a patrol officer working a neighborhood that was being hard hit by car burglars. Sometimes it's hard to tell a car burglar from a car owner (unless the subject takes off running when he sees me, of course).

I usually just asked if he had the keys to the vehicle. Most usually, they were locked in the car, and the guy was trying to open it to get them out. When that was the case, I asked to see some ID to verify ownership, then used my Slim Jim and wedges to help open the vehicle.

Radley Balko and I heard about the kid with the stolen Playstations a couple days ago, and we're still gathering information about it. It's not as cut-and-dried as some others; as you stated, he probably was a criminal.

However, entering without knocking is supposed to be used only under very specific (and rare) circumstances, which don't seem to apply here. The kid did not represent any extraordinary threat to officers, I don't see how he was going to flush the Playstations down the toilet, no one's life or safety was in any immediate danger, and there was no reason to think a felony was currently being committed.

from what I've seen so far, it is just one more unnecessary and tragic death, due to the overzealous use of police powers. I suspect it will soon be added to the ever-growing map.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Very true, without a felony being commited at the time or the fact it was a playstation 3 and was not going to be flushed. They could have used the old knock and show warrent technique. But i seen on a cable show about police use of force. The cop on the program said those days are over.

This is a sad reality. Our police forces, nation wide, are opting for the SWAT teams to go out there and serve the arrest/search warrants.

For the life of me I can only conclude that there is a nefarious purpose for it. Namely, to find whatever they can, whenever they can, and as often as they can. In other words, look for something - anything! This way they can pretty much toss whoever they can into the calaboose at will, and put em on the Ntl database for crooks. Pretty nifty way of doing it, actually!

Just remember this.

Their (the globalists/U.N./whatever you wanna call em) ultimate goal is to put ALL OF US either behind bars to become on-call gvmnt slaves or whores to do whatever they tell us to, or, they simply kill us outright.

I know that the latter sounds rather sensational/conspiratorial but, think about it. Do they really need us "useless eaters" when they own the damn Federal Reserve and it's money creating printing presses? Helllllllll no!

He who makes all the money controls the law/legal system and gvmnt. Anyone who don't recognize/believe that needs to wake the hell up and deal with reality. This world really is a Matrix of sorts.

You gonna take the "red" pill or "blue" pill? One opens yer eyes.....The other keeps you sedated. YOUR CHOICE - as always!


~DeOpressoLiber~

well, heres a good one. An IRS agent came up to a woman and told her he was confiscating her car for a $545 tax bill she owed. No court order, no warrant, no trial, just confiscation. well, the woman is a hero, she shoved him to the ground, got into her car and ran over his leg, then back crashed her car into the tow truck, and then took off.

She was being nice.... LOL

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com:80/

The blog has several subjects, so I copied off the relevant one for your review.

How to Deal With Taxmen and Other Thieves

Carjacker Cuticello: Knocked flat on his, um, Cheney by a woman. He got off easy.

Last night, a resident of New Haven, Connecticut was approached by C.J. Cuticello, a tax collector bent on seizing her car because of $536 in outstanding taxes and fees. According to the local NBC affiliate, the woman reportedly “pushed Cuticello to the ground, got in her car and ran over his foot, then backed up into the tow truck before speeding away.”

I admire her restraint.

It's entirely appropriate to use lethal force to repel a carjacking. And horse thieves were often used to stretch ropes in the Old West. Cuticello is no better than a carjacker or horse thief and deserves to be treated that way.

Predictably, the TV station – you know, a local outpost of the “liberal” (“statist” is a much more accurate description) media – described the citizen as an assailant and “scofflaw,” and the would-be carjacker as the victim of a “hit-and-run driver.” And just hours earlier, the station had presented a sympathetic profile of Cuticello, who lamented how difficult it was to shake down local motorists, and the sad duties he performs as a government-licensed car thief

Using a sophisticated plate identification device called a Bootfinder, Cuticello identifies and seizes vehicles, which are held in a city-owned lot until the ransom is paid (the tax plus whatever additional fees the syndicate behind this racket can devise). Using a fleet of three tow trucks, Cuticello and his gang have stolen more than 1,000 cars in the last several months; the local crime bosses expect them to track down a total of 10,500 vehicles and plunder a total of $2 million in revenue.

(Cuticello, by the way, also eagerly networks with other parasite privateers eager to get a piece of the plunder.)

As TheNewspaper.com notes, the New Haven city government claims that it can seize cars from those owing as little as $50 in unpaid parking tickets. Cuticello, who richly deserves to be made acquainted with the decorative uses of hot tar and chicken feathers, has been stealing cars for the local government for several years.


Like a child molester seeking vulnerable prey, Cuticello lurks in the shadows of large gatherings of distracted potential victims: He has prowled Wal-Mart parking lots and student parking areas at Yale University (where he targets out-of-state students). He's even swiped cars during Mass at the local Saint Rose of Lima Church, in the process chewing out the local Priest – who was forced to leave the confessional to deal with the carjacker.


I find it inexplicable that Cuticello had gotten away with this for as long as he did before running into someone willing to push back. And it is delicious to the point of rapture that when he finally got his back dirty, it was a woman who put him there.

Centuries ago, our colonial forebears, who suffered under an absolutist government much more civilized and much less intrusive than ours, would occasionally inflict humiliation of various kinds (including, when deemed necessary, physical abuse) on tax collectors and other agents of official injustice.

The treatment given to Cuticello was squarely in that estimable tradition; my only complaints are that it was entirely too mild, and – given how commonplace corrupt abuses of power like Cuticello's have become – altogether too uncommon.

Some would protest that such sentiments are un-American. In fact, they're more properly described as (read this carefully, now) ur-American.

Here is another editorial about this issue from Craig Roberts, whom I respect tremendously. He calls it like it is and I believe even mentions the CATO report. Its a great read.

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts01242007.html

I believe this is just another peg in the social engineering that is currently underway. Its to get us used to the military type behavior as routine so when this nation is taken over by martial law we will be duly intimidated into compliance through fear of force.

they have made it clear they are willing to kill us even if by mistake. There is no accountability for errors and deaths as a RESULT. Get ready, its coming.....

read "The Lawful Path: Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars". there is a site as well that is great for getting into this protocol that is out there. Its social engineering at its worst.

Warrants are routinely rubber stamped and very hard to quash even though they are usually so broad that they are unconsititutional. Everyone in this forum will have the SWAT show up if we are ever unfortunate enough to become a traget--Why, because the new data sharing ensures that we are tagged as members of the movement and as having LEGAL guns. None of which means anything except that hey get to break out the full-blow Himmler starter set.

Cant wait for the fun to start! Been waiting too long.

Here's a quote from a man with experiance-

"And how we burned in the camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain wether he would return alive and had to say goodbye to his family? Or if during periods of mass arrests people had not simply sat in thier lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall a half dozen people with axes, hammers pokers or whatever was at hand..."
Alexander Solzhenitsyn

That man is amazing.

My wife and I took our 6 y.o. to see the Movie the Last Mimzie. It is an interesting time travel sci fi movie that has children as the heros. Anyway, HLS and the FBI kick in this little families door with the SWAT gear. The dad asks for a warrant and the Chief Fedcoat says he has probably cause so he doen't need one!!!!! This scene scared my son and all of the children in the theatre.

Local Gestapo in a small Central La town impounded my car last year and left me standing on the side of the road. Claims that due to a rash of car thefts using "Dealer Tags" it was within his right becasue he couldnt call the dealership to verify my notarized bill of sale. Sure feel strange to stand on the road at gunpoint while they take your car away and be unable to do anything about it. Then you have to pay 500 dollars to get your car back after they say "Sorry" These cops are starting to think that just beacuse they have badges, they are above the law they are sworn to uphold. This is entirely wrong, and the more they get away with, the farther they will go.

I’ve been reading a lot about American History lately because my oldest grandson has taken an interest in it (and grabbing books off my bookshelf) I usually don’t have my head stuck in the 18th (or 19th) century but I see similarities between their situation and ours. A power hungry elite can always find people to pay, to impose their will on the general populace (by brute force). I remember reading ( a long while ago) about an incident in (or around) Paoli, Pennsylvania during the American Revolution. I think it was called “Baylor’s Massacre” or something like that. Some of the Pa. Militia (there may have been regulars there too) had taken up quarters in a farmer’s barn to catch some z’s around 2- 4 a.m. British soldiers came in and bayoneted them while they slept. The Farmer said that some of them cried our for “quarter” while being stabbed, but it was denied.

[Imagine that, sneaking into someone’s sleeping quarters in the middle of the night and killing them while they sleep......I’m glad we’re more civilized than that today.]

Any way, I guess the British didn’t realize at the time that there would eventually be consequences for this type of brutality. It was later discovered that several members of the Pa. Militia were wearing socks (leggings) made from the skin of British soldiers. I kid you not! I read this 25 years ago (and I can’t remember the name of the book). Maybe there’s a history buff out there who can fill in the missing parts.

Wow, they were a different breed of men back then. But hey, what do you expect, back then if you insulted a man’s integrity, you would find yourself out in the woods having a duel.
Compare that to today where the free and the brave put up with all sorts of shit.

I wonder if they had to tan the human skin or just dry it out before using it. I wonder what the insulating qualities were. It seems so thin that you wouldn’t get much from it, but I guess they thought it was better than nothing.

That's sick, thanks for sharing
Sick in a good way btw

Quote: Sure feel strange to stand on the road at gunpoint while they take your car away and be unable to do anything about it. Then you have to pay 500 dollars to get your car back after they say "Sorry" These cops are starting to think that just beacuse they have badges, they are above the law they are sworn to uphold. This is entirely wrong, and the more they get away with, the farther they will go.


It's a damn good thing they stole your car and not mine. I would've had his badge# and address.................

During the un-civil war my area was fiercely divided. Brutal guerilla war was the norm.

The Feds took civilian hostages. Held them under brutal conditions until their Confederate soldier husbands turned themselves in. Numerous other attrocities were perpetrated against the rebel citizens.

Sooo...

Some of the Confederate guerillas began scalping any fed they captured, some even started collecting ears, some fed prisoners were soaked with turpentine and set on fire.

If you were stupid enough to collaborate with the feds; your house would be burned, your children shot, and your wife raped and hung from a tree in the front yard. This message awaited many unionist soldiers when they returned home.

This continued for years after the war...just because some folks had been "on the wrong side". I know because I had family that participated in it. Many of the grandchildren of these Confederate guerillas still remember the stories handed down and still hate the feds with a seething rage.

And, One day we will collect ears again.

And i'm one of them!!!!!!

It's a damn good thing they stole your car and not mine. I would've had his badge# and address.................


Took it to court, Judge ruled that the officer was acting within his legal rights. Even though the bill of sale was notarized, the title was notarized, and all my "Papers" were in order. Since the officer "Had a hunch" , even though wrong, when unable to verify the information he had the right to impound the vehicle until such time as it could be verified. He also ruled that even though he was wrong, the city was not liable for any chages or fees that were incurred. Thats what I mean by the more they get away with, the more they will try. The really bad thing is the judges are bending the laws and making judgements to let them get away with it. My dad was a cop for 30 years, and I have 4 yrs of prior LEO experience. When I told this guy the "letter of the law" and that my paperwork was in order. He told me to shut my F*ing hole, he was the law here, and if I interfered I would find my A** in jail for obstructing his investigation. I objected again, he drew his weapon, told me to get on the ground and I was handcuffed and placed in the car. He then commenced to run my name and info everywhere he could to find something. When he was unable to find anything. He left me in the car, with NO AC running for over an hour while he waited for the tow truck. He then put me out, held me at gunpoint till the truck left. I was then uncuffed and he drove off. I was 40 miles from home, and my cellphone was in the car. I filed in district court for unnessary force, and unlawful seizure. Both were thrown out by the judge as being within the officers "Right" because he found no info on me.

Right On CONSIGCOR!
I don't expect quarter and I won't give it!
Raids are raids and if they are caught sleeping, then it is easier to do the job, less of them better for us!

I am close enough to help you, e-mail me with more details. Was it more than a year ago? I would like to hear all the details to see if your civil rights were violated and what sort of remedy you might have.

On another note, there seems to be a trend since the latest round of national security "reforms" to believe that mere probable cause is sufficient search someone or arrest them. This is the sick trickle-down from Alberto Gonzales' Justice Department. The man is a perverted sophist! Read the 4th Amendment:

"The Right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

In the case of Brinegar v US, 338 US 160 (1960) the S.Ct. defined probable cause as: when "the facts and circumstances within the officers' knowledge and of which they had reasonably trustworthy information are sufficient in themselves to warrant a man of reasonablw caution in the belief that an offense has been committed."

Terry v. Ohio, 392 US 1 (1968), says that in order to stop someone they need reasonable suspicion that a suspect has committed or is about to commit a crime. something more than an inchoate hunch that a suspect has committed or is about to commit a crime is required. Note a stop doesn't give the cops the right to seize you or your car. They can do a pat down for safety, but that is it. Still the P/O would need to reasonably articulate why he thought you might have a weapon before he could pat you down.


Louisiana Constitution Article 1, Section 5 is even more protective of the rights of individuals:
"Every person shall be secure in his person, property, communications, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches, seizures, or invasions of privacy. No warrant shall issue without probable cause supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, the persons or things to be seized, and the lawful purpose or reason for the search. Any person adversely affected by a search or seizure conducted in violation of this Section shall have standing to raise its illegality in the appropriate court."

Based on what you have said the cops did wrong!

But, as another example of how media inculcates the Sheeple I was appauled by an episode of the Unit last night. The military went and picked up a journalist who was asking too many questions. They stopped him without an arrest warrant, searched him, put him in a room, and suddenly showed him "documents" they found in his car and said they were going to treat him like an enemy combatant and send him to Cuba!!!! It made me want to puke.

My Acadian ancestor Beausoleil Broussard supposedly invented scalping during the French and Indian War while he was fighting the British after they removed the rest of the Acadian pouplation from the maritimes. He and his small band of Acadians and Micmaque Indians gave'em hell!

What Parish was this?

Rapides

When a thief comes to steal my car, i will protect it with my life and with every terrible insturment of war that i can muster to the death. If that thief is wearing a badge, i will still protect my car. Dead man don't steal cars and dead men don't put handcuffs on people. If this is the way i go out, so be it.

CSC,
About the Confederate guerillas.................
yea, that's one shitlist I wouldn't want to be on.

Another lesson from the past that WILL repeat in the future:

John Singleto Mosby became one of the ONLY "FREE MILITIA UNITS" in the Civil War (gurrillas) to actually maintain a high enough standard as to avoid some of the less savory aspects of that war.

He did it BOTH by intelligent Leadership, (choosing his underleaders CAREFULLY) as well as by PRINCIPALED REASONING, (he asigned each of his UNITS an AO. Then, he DEMANDED & EXPECTED his men to conduct themselves as GOOD NEIGHBOR VISITORS in ANY Home where they might find lodging & protection.)

Then, periodically, (as time & need permitted), he'd slip into an AO, & visit some of the "friendlies" & inquire how things were going. ANY TIME that he recieved a "BAD" report, those troopers were either sent back to the main Army, or shot...(depending upon the Military expediency).

But! the FEDs finally realized that the ONLY SOLUTION for beating the PARTICEN SOUTHERN Army, was to declare "TOTAL WAR"(Sherman's concept). And, it worked!

Until that horrid abberation of common decency, (in the name of Military expediency!?), Mosby was able to maintain a HIGH DEGREE of Military decorum within his ranks.

Scalping, skinning, slaughtering, and the such were annathema, & punishable by death. And, STILL SHOULD BE GENTLEMEN!

No matter how horrid your enemy; YOU nonetheless, by yielding & submitting to a like spiritual attitude degrade NOT ONLY yourself, but the FORCE & CAUSE with which & for which you fight!

WAR is said to be "A GREAT EQUALIZER", and, it is likewise said to be "THE GRAND TEST OF CHARACTER".

I accept that LATTER as one of my motives & reasoning in making WAR.

While I have no qualms at "raising the red flag" -- (The "Jollie Roguge' -- we expect none, nor give ANY quarter in this battle!"), nonetheless, I see no reasoned purpose in degrading myself or my ARMED RESISTANCE MOVEMENT to the level of that "Dragoon" in the Movie "THE PATRIOT".

There are times (as depicted when he went up against the six soldiers to free his son), that one must use one's "gifts" to the max...

BUT! There IS, & MUST BE a balanced reality of humane & ethical reasoning, in the midst of horrors & insanity! It's what seperates & differentiates beteen VILE EVIL and necessary death dealing!

Zeroedin is right guys. Be careful what you do, remember we are in the right and we need to stay there.

So Patriot, what you are saying is when I got pulled over, I should have just come out shooting? I had no Idea what this Morons plans were or why I was even being pulled over till it was to late. I was lucky I didnt have anything in the car. It would have added fuel to an already out of control fire.

I don't wxpect them not to rape my woman or molester my child, I in return will do what I see fit. It worked for the VC in Nam, it can work for us. Regardless of what I do disperse as far as pain and punnishment, I will never be as low as they are and we Will ALWAYS be Right regardless of what we have or have not done. There will be no prisoners, I will not waste my units food, time, and resources on scumb. Gentlemen, we are in a WAR and I am here to Win it. at all cost, or there is no reason to fight at all!

I don't mean to alienate anyone here, we are and will be under stress when all this occours. We are all gonna do things we will look back and wonder about.

Zeroedin, makes a good point. If and when the SHTF I think it best to comport ourselves in accordance with the civilized rules of warfare. The more we adhere to the rules, the more likely we would be given coverage by the GC. The PRC probably wouldn't follow the GC once they had gumption enough to try and pick a fight. In the last Civil War the Congress voted to treat Southron troops according to the laws of war. I wonder if the same would be true today if, God forbid, Americans started shooting each other? Nevertheless, if we believe in natural law, we should at least try and stick to the rules.

Unfortunately, it sounds like it is too late to do anything about it:-(

Too late for me, most of my ammo is hollow point, and for a reason. According to "rules of war", I am a War Criminal and you all would have to execute me. They play by the "rules" when it fits their needs, and only when so.

Cajunpatriot, I agree that we should treat captives and non combatant citizens with all the compassion and respect we can, But to win against their forces we must fight by completely new ways and rules, something they haven't seen in a while, throw them off guard and make them adjust, then change tactics again, to keep them off balance, this is the only possible winning combo.

Would the name of that town happen to start with a "W"?

Zerodin,
Your post, to say the least, was eloquently stated.
I brought up the "Baylor Massacre" mostly to make a point, rather than advocate their methods.
The British didn't afford the Colonists the courtesies of war. They looked at them as traitors only, not having any status as a legitimate army. The Miltiamen in the barn did not expect to be bayoneted in their sleep, as a courtesy of war. When that did happen they adopted the attitude, if we can't sleep in peace, why should the British be able to? Maybe it was an 18th century version of PsyOps.
I understand your point though, and you are right.

Its the same thing the Brits tried with the Scots. Tried to demoralize them by fighting dirty. That outcome should have told them it was a bad plan. Just like the Scots, Americans have a tendancey (real Americans, not the pussies that wanna "give peace a chance") not to cower in fear and bend over for oppressors, but to get thier hackles up and charge right down their throats. Had a few ancestors in both those fights...on the side of the Scots and the side of the Colonies.

All terror tactics from any quarter do is make me and mine mad. Too bad the oppressors of the world haven't learned from history...too bad for them.

May God have mercy on them, cause I won't.

Quote: Taylor: Too late for me, most of my ammo is hollow point, and for a reason. According to "rules of war", I am a War Criminal and you all would have to execute me. They play by the "rules" when it fits their needs, and only when so.

I agree with Zero but, Let's ask some of the servivors of waco what rules were applied? I have to side with Taylor on this one! ALL the people that have been murdered by our enemy including shooting women in the face and 14 year old boys in the back, burning people alive cannot be tolorated. They made the rules, not me.

Patriot makes a good point too, Again I would attempt to play by the rules unless they were doing the otherwise. But that is each mans choice, you must not fail or be caught, so do what you need to do to keep fighting. We are so out numbered that maybe fighting by the rules would get you killed. it is a problem we need to confront.

Quote: LaDuckman: So Patriot, what you are saying is when I got pulled over, I should have just come out shooting?

No; At that point you really had no choice in the matter. What needs to be at this point is RECON; Location, habits, addy, worktimes, playtimes, hobbies. All to be catagorized for the future. You will need these. Only trouble here is there are a few good cops left. There will come a day where the misdeeds of a few, the many will suffer as it is with the people at this time. There will come a time and only a little time away that when the checkpoint is encountered, you will have to engage with all your mite and fury. The time is near that when the bubble gum machines come on you will have to immediately engage. We must be ready for it. The time is near my friend! Very near!

It's almost sickening. The Sheriffs department here acquired a M-113 APC from the Army. The local ERT (Emergency Response Team) has it for raids. What situation possibly warrants the local police to run in with an armored tracked vehicle!? I think they've armed themselves with MP5 type weapons. My big questions is what happens when they kick your door down, and rush your bedroom. When the bedroom door flies off the hinges, you unload a handgun into the first person through. How does the ensuing legal battle play out? Maybe this has already happened somewhere huh?

What could they need an APC for? How about the pissed off citizens that are in going to be in their very near future?

I hear ya though. But, that's what comes to my mind. They're anticipating what's coming down the pike. Maybe they're "catching wind" of a future armed insurrection?

Nah, most of them just wanna play soldier. They feel like Darth Vader or Robocop in all the SWAT gear and the APC is part of the fantasy. If the american people actually DO start shooting back at them enmasse, they'll probably piss their slick black undies.

CH-
They like to dress up like Darth Vader? or Robocop?

Bro, that's a pretty simple-minded way of looking at cops on a power trip! And that IS WHAT IT IS........A POWER TRIP! MP-5's...M-16's...H&K's...ALL FULL AUTOS. High powered sniper rifles? ALL the best toys, brother. Come on, you'd love it.

Tell me that if YOU were a cop you would NOT "push your weight" around? Be honest. I most likely would, and I am being honest /w/ ya. That is why I would NOT consider being one....EVER! It opens the door to the "god-mentality". And especially in this new "police state" atmosphere where law enforcement careers are king because you are the ones packin the pieces each and every day - ALL THE TIME - on duty OR OFF.

And, "piss in their undies"? CH, do our soldiers piss in their pants when in a firefight over in the big sand box? I doubt it. I'm not saying they wouldn't be scared. Anyone havin bullets whizzin all around their head would be scared. But, pissin in their panties? You're jokin - right?

Anyhow, read this. Maybe it'll shed some light on the direction this country, with all it's new "Darth Vaders", is heading.

quote:
US Has Most Prisoners in the World Due to Tough Laws

"Tough sentencing laws, record numbers of drug offenders and high crime rates have contributed to the United States having the largest prison population and the highest rate of incarceration in the world, according to criminal justice experts. (Thank you, NRA. Where would freedom be without you?)"

Oh, I forgot to add that the above excerpt was from JPFO's website.

Cordially,
A.P2

Hehe, true enough AP2, I am just frustrated with the fact that just because they are cops, the gummament decides that they are more worthy of trust than we the people are.
I have been in positions of athority before and not thrown my weight around. I actually had thought about joining a police department, but I just cannot justify it. For one thing, I would probably be fired for refusing to enforece illigal statutes and the like. As for the toys, hells yes I want the toys, but certainly not to abuse citizens with.

I wasn't talking about our troops either. I was talking about the classic jack booted thugs that are going to be really suprised when the people don't just bow and scrape and beg for mercy when they come calling in their all black riot armor, APCs, and automatic weapons. Thats all I was saying

Like I said, been a bit riled lately.

I know you were NOT talkin bout the troops. I used them merely as an example....is all.

No worries, brother! Riled up a bit, U say? ME 3..hehe! Hell, I've been pissed off BIG TIME since my closest friend got screwed over by their bullsh*t laws about assault weaps.

He's still trying to UNdo what they did to him. He just found out that his only recourse is going straight to the Governor for a "pardon". :rolleyes: You know who Commiefornia's Gov is, right? Arnie (I'll B bak) Schwartzenegger. He likes guns, I'm pretty sure but, our state AG don't. That'd be Edmund Brown, Jerry Browns (our ex-Gov several ago) Daddy.

All he can do is to try. They got him on what they call a "domestic violence" charge along with the AW. The DV chg was him and another dude almost mixin it up but didn't. Ya believe that? The "dude" had him citizens arrested or else nuttin would have happened at all. The dude hated my buddy and got back at him that way.

A real messsssssy situation, fer sure!

Anyhow...........later 4 now.

I want to clarify my statements abit guys...

FIRST I want it CLEAR that I was NOT pointing my finger, but stating a lesson that I've had to absorb...(I was prety determined at one point to "DO UNTO OTHERS BEFORE THEY DO SO TO ME...IN LIKE MANNER AS THEY'RE DOING![/b]...but, then a SERIOUS "Operator" gave me a lesson in BOTH reality (they rape, torture, SLOWLY kill, & do WHATever it takes to get you to do "their' will, in the REAL wars), as well as a PROFOUND CLASS on the importance, nonetheless, on NOT repeating the "MAIELAI MASSACRE"...and it REALLY DOES come down to the CHARACTER ISSUE...

#2] This ISSUE of "how to respond to an enemy that has no moral restraint" is neither new, nor unencountered & unstudied...and it is WELL WORTH STUDY as to what others have determined...

gotta go...just got a call ...

Oh well, I'm back again...

Well, to sum it up, I believe that the MORAL/ETHICAL STANDARS that we determine, (individually, & as UNITS) to maintain are the essential difference makers...

The REASON that the ATF are JBT's is due to the lack of a MORAL/ETHICAL STANDARD being BOTH established & maintained...AND, that very REALITY is the MAIN reson this Country is degrading & collapsing & lossing God's blessing...DAILY!

BUT! I'm NOT talking William Bennets' doctrine here! I'm talking simple Christianity...the REALLY TOUGH LOVE sort, that SUFFERS before DEFILING...and that GOES that EXTRA MILE, before cheating, stealing or violating another's rights.

The "COMMON LAW" was based upon two basic precepts:

"I will ALWAYS do what I say I will", and

"I will NOT infringe on others "rights" or "property".

Not so complicated.

And, Jesus' LAWS were TWO also:

#1] "LOVE the Lord your God with ALL of your HEART, SOUL, MIND & STRENGTH." and

#2] "Love thy neighbor AS yourself".

Again...not too comlicated...JUST DAMNED HARD! But...the results are ALWAYS worth the effort!

QUOTE: "...the results are ALWAYS worth the effort!"

REPLY:
Most of the time.....

police are a sorry and counter productive replacement for the right to bear arms. Furthering the notion that guns are for domestic squabbles and for personal protection from thieves...

the second amendment is about protecting oneself from the organized thieves with the most guns.

the government.

Dunno where the thread that talked about individual sovereignty is but, here's a link and excerpt about it that I thought was apropriate.

EXCERPT:
"everything connected to a natural disaster is the government’s responsibility. But as Katrina clearly demonstrated, governments fail—consistently—to deal with the aftermath of natural disaster.

What’s a sovereign individual to do? Choosing to live in areas prone to tornadoes, earthquakes, or hurricanes carries risk. If private insurance companies consider the risk too great to bear, as is the case in areas where flood insurance is unavailable except through government, be prepared to suffer a loss. Don’t call on Leviathan for help. Instead, choose your living accommodation to be as resistant to whatever natural disaster might strike as possible. Stockpile food, water, ammunition, and other necessities. Don’t even think about whining if government doesn’t come to your rescue.

Ad infinitum

Do you expect the government to educate your children? To protect you from terrorists? To guarantee your job? To protect you against corporate fraud?

The record speaks loudly. It can’t. Sovereign individuals recognize this and pay the personal costs to prepare for all contingencies.

Sovereign individuals stand opposed to Leviathan. By demanding the freedom to choose the course of their own lives, they accept the responsibility for the consequences of those choices. Do you have what it takes to stand on your own two feet and accept complete responsibility for your choices"?

http://www.sovereignsociety.com/offshore1846.html

The problem with police, is the same problem that you find when any individual has power over another. Power corrupts. I believe most officers start out with the notion that they with help the community. But to many temptations and working with the criminal element makes them cynical. They start putting everyone but other cops in the same mold and begin to hate them. That when police powers are abused. Their are many good people who are destroyed by corrupt police forces. It is always better for the people to protect themselves rather then have a police force. Problem is to many people have become pacificists and will not protect themselves. So what do you do?

BTW guys...I am a FIRM believer in the S.E.A.L. Motto:
"DEFEAT IS NOT AN OPTION. You WILL WIN! By whatever means necessary!"

What I intended to point out is the LINE that must be drawn between MORAL/ETHICAL and deranged, devilish, & moraless.

I'd say the balance is pretty well depicted in the T.V. series "JERICO". While Hawkins & Jake have NO QUALMS in "offing the enemy, by whatever means necessary", they, at the same time, support a HIGH LEVEL OF INTEGRITY, DECENCY, consideration & Godly wisdom, as well as a strong portion of sacrificial LOVE.

Does THAT mean that I will not "PULL IT" when it is time, or that I will be SOOO hesitant that I will allow that "time" to pass? I pray not! I entend to DO all that I can so as to be WELL PRACTICED in the ART OF WAR! I'm "producing" my "UNCONVENTIONAL MODERN ASYMETRICAL WARFARE MANUAL" daily...and AM studying to shew myself approved, a WARRIOR who need not be ashamed".

EACH situation MUST be judged by it's OWN MERITS...you won't need more than the THREAT" of torture, to "break" the adverage "Joe sixpack", but, with a war hardened "blACKWATER" merc, well, torture is REALLY NOT an opperative opTION...just "take out the trash"...CAN YOU see THE DIFFERENCE that I mean?

The GENUINE "FEAR OF GOD" is what makes the GENUINE difference...

KILLING---KNOWING---HAVING; THESE ARE NOT THE OPERATIVE WORDS!

SAVING, RESCUING, ESCAPING, RESISTING, LIVING..these ARE the OPPERATIVE WORDS!


"A fructibus eorum conosetis eos!"

BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM...Matt.7:20

There should be no doubt by this time that the federalization and militarization of the police is the result of a thought-out plan.

But there is also a trap being set.

Currently the militarization comes about from the lack of the justice system to actually keep the criminals locked up. So you have a lot of couch-conservatives clamoring for more police powers and for them they sort of "get off" on displays of police power. This is similar to how people get giddy when they think of some young punk getting raped in the ass in prison.

You would expect those same leftist judges and politicians who are soft on criminals to be alarmed at the rising police militarization. But they are not. Why?


The answer comes with the other factor: Illegal Immigration and the establishment of "Sanctuary Cities".

Now we have one of the indoctrinators of fake conservatism, Bill O'Reilly, clamoring for the police to start enforcing federal immigration laws.

No big deal, right? Find out if this is an illegal alien, and then turn that individual over to INS.

But once you have it in laws and doctrine that local police can enforce federal laws, the door is wide open for that part of local police work to become institutionalized. It starts to become a 2-way function where they will get more equipment, training and money from the feds and in return will enforce more federal laws. This will establish a heavily militarized federal police force - not far from where we are now.

There are other factors too. Affirmative action is intended to make sure that those cops who are called upon to enforce bad federal laws will not be related in any way to those upon whome they enforce. Taking that one minortree from the city where "all guns are bad and people who have them are up to no good", give that individual a badge and send him to the country to enforce a confiscation, is a lot more effective than trying to tell bubba to go bust his friends that he grew up with and take their guns.

The other factor to consider as well is the amnest program proposed for the illegals presently here, mainly by granting citizenship to those one individuals who may threafter "import" their families. There is a lot of potential there for the left, who wants exploited low wage workers to get votes from, and the corporate chronies on the right who want more worker to exploit. But the factor that is concerned in the context of this thread is that these people will make great new police officers and military members because of several other traits:
- they "owe" America something for "giving" them a good life. America does not give a good life, but you should all notice how neither the right nor left points that out.
- the culture of the hispanics is such that, as Thomas Jefferson once lamented, is too tied to authority figures and displays to truly embrace liberty. This is not to make a blanket statement about hispanics who already live here and are educated, as we see anglos lacking in education also make similar cultural mistakes, as well as the destroyed black community destroyed for that reason. A wave if poorly educated and desperate for a break mexicans will certainly embrace the good pay and benefits of a police force, and cracking down on fellow citizens for a paycheck is something that central american societies have a more detailed history of.


Indeed the situation looks bleak.

By RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI, Associated PressThis was yesterday, Apr. 8; '07 & it was a 19 minutes old story....so, this is the newest on this matter! UGH!!

PITTSBURGH - After six people were shot in the city's Homewood neighborhood in less than 24 hours, Pittsburgh police rolled in with a 20-ton armored truck with a blast-resistant body, armored rotating roof hatch and gunports.
(If 6 deaths caused these folks to get a 2o Ton truck...the folks in VA Tech need an A1A Abrams!....right?)

Homeland Security money.(nuff said!) But the show of force sent a message.

With scores of police agencies large and small, from Lexington, Ky., to Austin, Texas, buying armored vehicles at Homeland Security expense, some criminal justice experts warn that their use in fighting everyday crime could do more harm than good and represents a post-9/11, militaristic turn away from the more cooperative community-policing approach promoted in the 1990s.(this writer's obviously too young to remember WACO...RUBY RIDGE...OKC...no "militarization at those places...right? hmmmmm

When the armored truck moved through the Homewood neighborhood late last year, residents came out of their homes to take a look. Some were offended.(gee! REALLY?...wow, what UNpatriotic ANTI-Bushites! ARREST'EM!...seriously tho, it's good to know that at LEAST one person was still awake there! Ha!)

Critics say that the appearance of armored vehicles in high-crime neighborhoods may only increase tensions by making residents feel as if they are under siege.(DUH!...No one old enough to remember the leassons of WATTS??!!)

"The whole military special-operations model is culturally intoxicating", said Peter Kraska, a professor at Eastern Kentucky University and an expert on police militarization. "The military-style approach runs a high risk of being very counterproductive." (He's SOOOO glaringly aware of the BLANTANLY obvious! How inspiring!)

"It does worry me when cops try to be more military-like because an armored car is not going to stop a terrorist," he said.(This guy is the MASTER of understatement!)

In Pittsburgh, a city of about 370,000 with pockets of mostly drug- or gang-related crime, the armored truck made by Lenco Industries Inc. of Pittsfield, Mass., has "been used about four times a month", Budd said.

He said "the Lenco B.E.A.R., (or Ballistic Engineered Armored Response and Rescue vehicle), was bought primarily to be used in hostage situations and when officers are wounded". On Sunday, the truck was deployed when Pittsburgh's SWAT team responded to a report of an armed man holed up in a home. The standoff ended peacefully.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, police in Lexington, Ky., a city of about 280,000, have obtained two armored vehicles, including a Lenco B.E.A.R. (paid for with Homeland Security money), and two military helicopters acquired from the Pentagon.(GEE MOMMY! Aren't those men in the big truck soooooo nice! They're giving our neighbor a FREE RIDE...the're even CARRYING HIM to their truck!...Mommy...what does DHS mean?)

IT MAKES ONE FEEL SOOOOO WARM & CUDDLEY...what with the SPECIAL CARE that our dearly beloved members of der Furers' DHS will give us! SOOOOONNNN!

Dr. "J", i just now read your post, and I must say that you've done an EXCELLENT JOB of simplifying, & clarifying the present SERIOUS degradation of our Nations' values, employment ops, and LEO's! WELL SAID SIR!

I am an OPTOMIST by nature(the way God created me!), but, at present, ALL I CAN "SEE" is that this Nation's populace is opting for SELF!

SELF gratification(porn, drugs, booze, etc.)...SELF angrandizement: (IDOLS, BRITNEY..etc., frivilous Law suits, Iraq-WOT-WOD, present day "LOBBYISM" in D.C.)...SELF DELUSION: (the STRONG "support the troops[AKA: "support the Prez!"]...the WEAK "support RON PAUL!" showing)...

As for this "TRAP"...yeah, I see it, & I believe it...and I'm PREparing for it... and I HOPE & PRAY that OTHERS are too...but, the MORE likely reality is that, that's not going to do anything but make our capture & incarceration a bit slower & more difficult...and painfull for ALL parties involved.

Because, UNFORTUNATELY, I DOUBT that many "see" it as a TRAP, but MOST accept it as an improvement! So, MOST will GLADLY HELP with our capture & incarceration...or other...

BLEAK INDEED!

Zeroedin, Your sarcastic truth telling is entertaining and educational. It's a good way to get people to read and think. Dr.J you always have an insightful way of relaying the real story and getting to conversation going. I salute you both

I never thought in a million years that I would ever agree with ANYTHING written by Carolyn Baker. The fact that I have any common ground what-so-ever with a rabidly anti-christian mystic like Baker... surely means that we do live in really weird times.

Not only that, yesterday I found myself in agreement with Gore Vidal, and Bruce Springsteen. THE HORROR!!!

Thing is see, I haven't changed my ideology, and neither have the political leftists and/or anti-Christians. It's just the circumstances we both find ourselves in have changed dramatically.

French Resistance and communists battled the Nazis together.

Things could get wierder.

Ive already had a visit.......

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5244051.html

SWAT TEAM USED FOR EVICTION MAN TAKES HIS OWN LIFE

Naked Deaf Man posed a threat.
http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?s=7446220

You'd think, with all that fear for their own safety, they would get another job.

Man can't even take a friggin bath anymore! I hate to think what would have happened if his wife and him had been doing the wild thang. The cops would have NO doubt murdered them both. What a way to go though!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801766.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/26/AR2005062600954_5.html

Look into this one. The Alexandria P.D. did an 'internal' investigation & ruled the shooting justified. I knew this gentleman, he had a civil war-era blackpowder revolver & was pointing it in the air when he was shot by 2 SWAT agents, at least one of the guys admitted in the police report that his view was obstructed by leaves from a tree when he fired (the first shot). After he was shot the first time, they shot him again in the back.

Oh yeah, & they murdered the guy AFTER the boy was secured by the agents.

Two Words. Crotch and Neck.

A while back I was watching a show where a swat team was raiding a house, and the owner of the house had a unique way of dealing with it. He had the idea that one day he would be raided, so he strung a high pressure air line all the way around his house, and ran it back to a pump sprayer inside the house.

The small clear air line was not noticeable, but had small holes drilled into it every couple feet or so. When he heard what was going on, he squeezed the pump trigger and released a fine mist of kerosene on the unsuspecting officers who were sneaking around his home, then like the fourth of july, a spark was struck, and a wall of fire circled his house setting all the swat on fire, and he had a perfect chance to pick them all off one at a time.

But of coarse, this was just a movie. We all know that No One would ever do such a thing to our Fine boys in swat uniforms.

Troy SOS drug raid targets wrong site

TROY — A search warrant executed by the city Police Department’s Special Operations Section went awry July 3 when officers broke into a woman’s 396 First St. home thinking it was a drug house.

The Emergency Response Team, a highly trained, heavily armed unit of the SOS, shot the locks out of the front door, broke the front window and lobbed in a fake grenade, known as a “flash bang,” which emits a loud noise and a bright light and is designed to disorient residents. The flash bang seared the living room carpet, according to sources.

It turned out that police believed the house was a drug house and the address on the warrant was correct but the occupant was not a drug dealer at all.

Sgt. Pat Rosney heads up the SOS team for the Troy Police Department.

A neighbor, who preferred to remain anonymous, said he was not at home during the raid but said the resident is a “good person” and “doesn’t bother anyone.”

“They could have at least fixed up their stuff,” he said. “They broke her door and her window and really busted the place up.”

The woman living there was placed into custody but was released a short time later. She could not be reached for comment.

By evening, the door had a fresh coat of paint and a new lockset and deadbolt. But the aluminum window frame was dented and the blind covering the window was ripped.

The landlord, Mark Finielli could not be reached for comment.

Warrants, like the one signed by Troy Judge Matt Turner, are requested of a judge if there is probable cause or evidence of a crime.
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Most cases involving violent felons or fugitives are of the no-knock variety, in that police do not have to request entry. Many drug crimes fall into this category because the illegal substance, especially when cocaine is involved, can be easily flushed down to the toilet or otherwise gotten rid of.

Through a spokesman, Mayor Harry Tutunjian referred comment to the Police Department.

“As in all major search warrant operations, this is under review by the Police Administration,” said department spokesman Sgt. Dave Dean.

oneshotK57

I have never seen that movie but there is another one that is quite interesting.

Speed

In that movie a crazed bomber rigged up his home so after SWAT entered his home it self destructed and took all the SWAT cops with it.

Another good way to make a point.

Is to rig your home like in the movie Speed but to have it triggered via a pendent dead mans switch which is kept next to the persons bed.

By the way what would have happened if David Koresh had rigged Mount Carmel in this manner and had let all the bad guys in before activating the self destruct. Or if he had rigged the land that the bad guys were parked on with Foo-Gas under ground. I believe that during the Ruby Ridge incident Bo Gritzs told the FBI that they should not try to storm Weavers Cabin as they wanted to do, since Randy was a Special Forces Demolition expert and might have rigged his property with Foo Gas.

And one last thing about that first movie, Kevlar is not Nomex and provides no protection against fire as far as I know.

And here is one interesting fact Flame Throwers are not classified as firearms and can be purchased easily or even made.