The Pilgrims and Property Rights

How free enterprise saved the colony at Plymouth Rock and allowed it to prosper. About 2 1/2 minutes of history.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Onward and upward,
airforce

I am really interested in the Pilgrims since I am a direct descendant of William White. My Family Cradle is in Pilgrim Hall Museum in Plymouth along with his sword and armor.

actually the superior technology of the musket enabled the Pilgrims to genocide the local Indians and take the land for themselves only cost the murder of 700 women and children. You can only have the ground you hold, lose force and you lose ground if not your life and your entire tribe just ask the Branch Davidians.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTuFKisYnm8&playnext=1&list=PLDBF602FB4F0FE73E&index=15

You are incorrect about one thing.

I want you and everyone to know that the Original Pilgrims were not the ones who committed genocide against the Wampanoag (the local Indians) it was the Puritans of the Massachusetts Bay Colony who came later who Murdered the Wampanoag and stole their land.

And the Puritan-Native alliance against the Winnopeag that started the thanksgiving tradition. The puritans were on the brink of death, no crops were growing, illness was rampant, and a tribe of local natives promised food if the puritans killed of the winnopeag. The subsequent feast is now known as thanksgiving.

Genocide, burning women and children, torture, slavery is not justice and is not justifiable no exceptions even if it does describe the last democrat and republican administrations.

ParaSkS where did you ever get this idea from:
Here are a few FACTS.

The Puritans are not the exact same thing as The Pilgrims.

While Pilgrims and Puritans have certain beliefs in common, Pilgrims and Puritans do not have identical or the same exact beliefs in: Religion, Philosophy, Politics, and Geography.

There is no Winnopeag Tribe it simply does not exist at least not in New England.

The Native Americans that the Pilgrims interacted with were the Wampanoag Condederation, which was not one Tribe but a Confederation of Tribes.

No Tribe of local Natives promised the Pilgrims food or anything else, if they killed off the Wampanoag or any other Native American Tribe.

And Last but certainly not Least, THE PILGRIMS DID NOT COMMIT GENOCIDE AGAINST OR MURDER ANY WAMPANOAG OR ANY OTHER NATIVE AMERICAN....

All totally true, but what does this have to do with the Pilgrims??

In the Pequot War, pilgrim settlers burned and killed hundreds of native Americans as they fled their village.

I thought this was about the Pilgrims relationship with the Wampanoag not about what happened with the Pequot.

The Facts are the Pilgrims were there when the Massacre happened, but it was John Mason of the Connecticut Colony who gave the Orders for the Massacre so putting all the blame on the Pilgrims is not fair.

The Truth is the Original Pilgrims got along fine with the Wampanoag which was the Tribe that helped them and the Wampanoag and the Pilgrims lived in peace for about 50 years as best as I can determine.

At least the Original Pilgrims did not stab the people who helped them in the back like a lot of other Americans did.

What seems to be happening in this Topic is similar to what happens with the issue of Blacks being Slaves where White Americans and White Europeans get all the blame, and the Truth that it was other Blacks who sold their fellow Blacks into slavery and it was also Muslims who sold the Blacks to the European and American Slave Traders is totally ignored.

The Truth is the history of the relationships between Native Americans and every Colony and after the Revolution the United States has been totally rotten and a lot of Atrocities have occurred on both sides with us White People setting new Standards of Barbarity.

The South had it's share of Barbarity, like what happened with the Cherokees, and a little closer to your area, I suppose you have heard of Wounded Knee and then there is what our Great Republic did to the Nez Perce.

At least there was a little Payback, with what happened to Custer.

And if you really are interested in the Evil that so called Civilized Europeans, this time the Spaniards, are capable of doing to so called Savages do a search for Dogs of the Conquest.

The Truth seems to be that the Original Pilgrims treated the Native Americans a whole lot better then just any other group in American History.

This is true. However, the Pilgrims are not perfect in their relations. They just needed good relations to survive, not from the goodness of their hearts.

That is a huge stinking pile of Bull Excrement.

How the F*ck would you know what was in their hearts any more then I would know what is in anyone else's heart, so just give me a break, I am no longer in the mood for people posting what they don't know crap about. If you want to post that your Father, Family and Friends are worthy of Sainthood go head at least you should have some idea what is in their hearts, especially your Father.

And you can also post about the Tribes in your area and what the relationship was between them and the Settlers, at least that is something you may have a little first hand knowledge about.

So the Pilgrims treated the Wampanoag with respect for 50 Years because they needed them to survive, oh yea and you are on this board so that after the War you will be appointed supreme Leader of the Free World.

The Pilgrims only needed help that first year, they did not need help for 50 Years. You remember that Pequot War, do you really expect anyone to believe that after that war the Pilgrims still needed any help from the Wampanoag for basic Survival.

the Pilgrims are not perfect in their relations.

How about letting all the other members of this board know who other then our Savior is perfect in their relations with anyone.

NO ONE IS PERFECT, Not the Pilgrims, Not the Native Americans, Not Me, Not You, Not my Friends, Not my Family, Not my Father, Not your Friends, Not your Family, and Not your Father.

We are all FAR FROM PERFECT and we have all done something that we would not have done if we were Perfect.

I have done things that I now regret and I bet you also have done something or will do something that someday you will wish you hadn't and maybe it will be something that was not very nice.

And since I have mentioned your Friends and Family including your Father, I will add this.

I bet your Cop Friends and your Father in his job as a Cop has at least one time issued a ticket for some BS Offense like no Seatbelt or enforced another Law that is a violation of a Citizens Rights. And I believe there are not many Cops who have not done this, since their Job is not to reason why but to just enforce the darn Law.

The Pilgrims are part of my Families History and I know a little more then you do about them. I have even visited the Museum and looked at my Family Cradle, and I have actually talked to some Native Americans including Nipmuc, Narragansett and Pequot about what us Whites did. And even though I Hate Gambling I feel if anyone is going to benefit from a Casino it should be those who we victimized and stole from in our quest for Land and Power.

Sniper, I also had family in the area at the time.

In 1623 John Balch came to Massachusetts from Somersetshire England. “He came with a colony in the charge of Captain Robert Gorges who had a grant of a large tract of land which he wished to colonize." They landed at Wessegusset, now known as Weymouth, Massachusetts.

”By May 1631, John Balch and about eighteen others, being members of the church, were made freemen, that is, given the right to vote and hold office." In 1638 he built a two story frame house upon his land in North Beverly, in which he spent the remainder of his life. His home is still standing, the oldest house in New England, and held for preservation by trustees representing the family.

John became known as one of the four “Old Planters,” along with John Woodbury, Roger Conant, and Peter Palfrey. These four were the original founders of Salem. John was not a Puritan. He was a Presbyterian coventer. An interesting quote about them is that “none of them or their descendants are known to have been among the persecutors of the Baptists, the Quakers, or the Witches, but, on the contrary, a descendant of Woodbury kept a horse saddled and a lantern lighted to aid any accused of witchcraft to escape, and a grandson of John Balch dared to sign a remonstrance against their persecution.”

Sniper 762X51,
How about this: Give up the Pointless insults and start working on posting more than "how much you hate cops" and "Pilgrims were this much different from Puritans" and do something productive.

I know what I know. You know what you know. Fine. At least present your information in a way that people can understand, not just tell how much this information is wrong, and make some pointless comments on 'family, friends, and father'.

I never meant that the Pilgrims were perfect. I was intending on the meaning that they were not the amazingly good people that you implied they were. Also, they DID need the Natives to help them survive so therefore they based their relationship more off of their own survival.

I respect all of the patriots and true Americans on here and everywhere else, I hate to 'flame' a brother Patriot, or insult. I wish only to gain more knowledge and this discussion drove me to research more into the topic.

However...

What the hell does that mean?