Emergency Caching

Everbody needs several of these placed in secure locations well in advance of the event.

Here is how Hawker did it.

Posted by: SPIKEpilot May 22 2006, 05:40 AM

Hawker, are these buckets for caching (burying)? If so, dessicant for moisture control would be a good idea. Also, maybe a plastic bag, so you can use the bucket for a crapper if needed. Water filter is good , but you might want to consider your position when you get to the bucket & have a couple of those USCG water packs on top (along with the gun). Of course, with all this, you might need a bigger bucket!

It's so nice when pictures are used. I need to start shooting some of mine for this site to pass along.

Posted by: Hawker May 22 2006, 12:01 PM

The idea behind this exercise was... you have one bucket.... what would you stash given that space? You have to choose wisely and make the most of that space.

Yes.... you can bury it, or stash one in your vehicle, or at a friends house.

I do have access to dessicant bags (our aircraft parts come with them and we have a 7' tall oven at work to dry them out for use again) and do use them in my stashes. They are a must and one or two will be added here.

This could be considered a Grab-n-Go bucket. One that will get you to your main stash or a "friendly's" home.

A couple other things that I would add on a after thought.... a brown or camo'd T-shirt.... and a few zip-lock bags.

Posted by: Dhass May 23 2006, 01:54 AM

How about some cash? Not too much is really needed here. I have $50 in each cache. I too have the Coast Guard approved water, Datrix bars, and some special 5 year emergency bars also. Did I miss something in your picture and list? Is there no rifle ammo? I have special rifle ammo caches with 300-500 rounds. I have also tried to keep 100 rounds for a rifle in every cache.

I have found that 6 gallon buckets will still use the same lids as the 5 gallon variety and give you just that little bit of extra room. When I discovered this, I redid my caches that used buckets (I have different types of caches in different locations).

It appears, sir, that you have the situation well in hand. Now, try to keep them within walking distance, if at all possible. I know of a gentleman not too far from where I reside who has a really good system. The one thing that bothered me about his system is that the nearest one is about 20 miles away from his residence. Too far for me!

Posted by: Hawker May 23 2006, 02:08 PM

Dhass.... the money thing is a good idea and wouldn't take up any room. I will add a few FRN's and some silver to the list.

No... no rifle ammo in this one, although rifle and ammo are taking care of.

This is a escape and evade bucket. Something to get me by and to the better stash.... or at least to a sanctuary.

Posted by: swamp fox May 26 2006, 09:16 AM

Bucket caches are great. This one looks more like a "grab & go" kit in case you can't get to the main one in the house. You may want to bury a cheap rifle like a Mosin Nagant in a capped-off PVC pipe next to the bucket.

Always great to have things in there that you may run out of. Toiletries, ammo, snacks, a couple of MRE's, gun cleaning kit, socks/underwear, a tarp, emergency blanket, first aid kit... let your imagination run wild.

And like the others pointed out, don't forget the dessicant.

Posted by: PipeRain May 26 2006, 11:37 AM
That looks like a larger than 5 gallon bucket. Is it?

Posted by: Hawker May 26 2006, 04:43 PM
It is taller than a 5gallon, but it's the special top on it. It's a snap on top that has a screw on lid built into it.

Posted by: PipeRain May 26 2006, 04:54 PM
Slick deal!

Is it some kind of foods bucket? I can't imagine it would be a paint bucket.

Posted by: Hawker May 26 2006, 11:39 PM
I bought these buckets brand new back before Y2K and for the life of me.... I can't remember where.

Posted by: PipeRain May 27 2006, 12:18 AM
Well yer no help!

Thanks fer nuttin'!

Pipe,
At one time Major Surplus in CA. carried the buckets and lids together or as separate items.


Posted by: PipeRain May 27 2006, 04:06 PM
QUOTE (ConSigCor @ May 27 2006, 11:18 AM)
Pipe,
At one time Major Surplus in CA. carried the buckets and lids together or as separate items.


Thanks!

Sumpin to add to my list. If only they had a "Ammo for frequent buyers program" at Majors....

Posted by: Hawker May 28 2006, 04:49 PM

I do have this link which I have dealt with on storage stuff recently....

http://www.relianceproducts.com/

Posted by: EastCentralMSMilitia Jun 16 2006, 03:07 AM

A vaccuum sealer is the best way to go for cache of metal items.

That way when your water leaks in the bucket you won't be digging/retrieving a bucketfull of rusted and mildewed unuseable crap.

Also, in our part of the world the buckets will sweat on the inside. PVC does the same thing. I guess it's more porious material than we think.
"J" from southeast area can elaborate.

I think I'd like a few of those refurbished large desi-packs.

If I ever have the correct weekend off I have some medical items for the group.

I shouldn't say, but better then the five gallon bucket is 12" or larger PVC with the bottom cap glued on and the top cap greased on with vasoline. drill two holes in the top and attach a 4" U bolt with silicone in the holes. This makes lid removal easy. You can make these as long as you like and can store anything. including weapons and ammo. Just use silca moisture absorbing bags in the tube, you can get these out of electronic packing at the stores. Use silicone wraps on the weapons and ammo. this should be buried straight up and hidden so only you can know where it is at.

Chainsaw posted 07-21-2006 01:02 PM

I heard good tip for Cache spots, bury them around old junkyards and the like so if nosy usurpers come around with radar it will break up the image , better idea even might purposely scatter bits of scrap metal around positon's ,
this could tip off too maybe, im not sure but seems like good idea

--------------------
In guerrilla warfare they taught us to use our weaknesses as strengths.
If they're big and you're little, then you're fast and they're slow. You're hidden and they're exposed. You fight only the battles you know you can win.

I wanted to add that you dont have to drill the holes or attach a handle. it just means you'll need to dig a bigger hole for access. Without the holes in the lid theres not much chance of a leak.

Good luck finding caps that big. I know I had to special order them from a plumbing warehouse 300 miles away. They turned out to be 2-piece caps at $70 EACH. I was told that 'Nobody caps 12" pipe.' The pipe I got for a song and a dance; $1.00 per foot.

I've been thinking of digging the hole and putting 8" of concrete in the bottom. While the concrete is wet I'd ram one end of the pipe into it. Once the concrete cured, I'd pour a gallon of thompson's waterseal inside the pipe. That should end up being pretty waterproof. I'll use the PVC cap on the top.

6" and 8" PVC pipe are much easier to work with.

sorry Rudy, I already have made these units, I get mine from a well drilling company, They drill house hold 6" wells and farm 12" wells. They have to cap the bottom piece of pipe, the pipe has small slices in it to allow water in bottom is capped to keep dirt out. It is a single cap, just like 6" pvc caps and is glues on. You can buy couplers and screw in caps. These are a more expensive. There should be a well drilling company close to you. I have a supply store 3 miles from here. If you wish I will get you some info. The concrete and thompson's might just work. but you'll need to cap the top.

Send me some prices and a contact at your source if you would please. The largest well around here is 8".

Ok, Let me run down there and talk to him. I'll let you know when I get a updated price list.

I know a man who says he keeps a survival kit in his wife's flower bed. I thought he was whacked, casue this is Canada, and I wouldn't bother burying a hundred bucks of gear and a breakdown rifle under a flowerbed.

But . . . that really makes sense, now that I look back at it.

You see now don't you. If you cache in alot of places you are always prepared. There is many ways to get this done 5 gal buckets, pvc tubes,safe houses, your only limited by your Imagination.

I have been getting my 5 gal buckets from wally world deli/bakery for free..I just go back every 3-4 days and ask if they have any and they hand over how many they have..some have lids with rubber seals in them and all have good handles either plastic or metal with plastic handle holds..now i have to start finding places to get dessicant/silica gel which shouldnt be too hard working in a mall with all those stores..

Just curious, what's the reason for only having the sidearm magazines half full?

if one stores thier mags at full then over time the spring in the mag will weaken(being constantly in a compressed state) and it will not feed into the chamber right...if one keeps the mag short a couple rounds ex. a 10 rd mag at 5 rds then the spring will still be strong enough to feed when you fill it to the top..

Ah, that makes perfect sense, especially for mid- to longterm storage. Thanks for the tip!

If you're worried about magazine springs, just store them empty.

storing empty is the best option but one might not always have the time to sit and load up when on the run..might just have enough time to dig it up and run with it..

I can reload a magazine faster than I can dig up a Cache.

really you can? im amazed rudy..the point is its going to take time to dig the stash up why spend more time in one place loading mags and possibily doing it in the dark..its an efficency thing and if one is smart one would pack the weapon at the top of
the bucket so its the first thing grabbed..but the question begs if one is on the run and going after a buried cache does one remember to grab the e-tool as they leave?

If you are on the run, you have to take everything in the cache with you. If you didn't need the ammo, you can't just leave it behind. You might not have time to re-bury it. It is now a compromised site. It will be under survelance just in case you come back to it. That's why I would rather put my ammo and a weapon in smaller separate caches.

The E-tool question:
On Junk day (when people put out their household Junk, not garbage) look for old shovels. ones with crappy handles...maybe broken, cracked etc....pick as many up as you have caches. leave the shovel 10 meters away covered in old leaves. It wont be the best but it will get you the 2 feet down to the top of your cache container. and you dont care about it. if someone does find it, its an old rusty shovel with a rotton handle left in the woods...most will just drop it
when your done using it, heave it off into the woods and be on your way

i like this idea ridge runner..never thought about it before.. thanks

FANTASTIC POSTS GUYS! THANKS!

I use 5 gal buckets from wally world. Put 8 inches under ground With a flannel shirt as the last thing in. Firearm should be in SEALED plastic bag with plenty of Auto trans fluid for lub. Ammo below that and other commoditys below that. Use panty hose cut off and tied in knot full of white rice for drier. Put one underground in 1999 and checked it in 2003. NO PROBLEMS FOUND. Renewed food and water and replanted it!

The Art of Caching

This is a repost from 2001.

Sad to say, the march of anti-constitutional laws continues to quicken the pace. Today tens of thousands of law abiding citizens face becoming armchair felons because they are not gullible enough to comply with mandatory registration and licensing of long owned firearms. Collectors have been raided on bogus pretexts, then arrested for paper violations , and had their assets seized. It's a shame, but in many jurisdictions your AR-15 or SKS is an outlaw rifle , and you are at risk every day that you keep it in your house. It is doubly a shame because these are exactly the types of arms the founding fathers were speaking of when they wrote the 2nd Amendment...

So if you will not register or turn in your weapons, and are reluctant to keep some of them in your house, what is to be done with them, to preserve them for use at some future date? Many folks just say bury them but this is simplistic and may be self defeating, for a buried gun may be rusted, forgotten, or paved over in time. The art of the cache is then the subject of this lesson.

First we must define a few terms, for there are several classes of caches. A fighting cache or ready cache is one where a rifle or other weapon is kept, sighted in and with the correct ammunition and cleaning gear, available on short notice. A long term cache should be able to lay undetected for years if need be. An Escape and Evasion cache will contain a complete getaway kit in addition to a firearm, against the day that the owner finds himself pursued by enemies.

An E&E cache will contain the items listed in Squantos' E&E kits, as well as hair dye, instant tan lotion, scissors, a razor, a nylon windbreaker and a hat for a quick appearance change. Cash, gold, a space blanket, a poncho for shelter and a pistol would also be included. All of these items can be kept in a .50 caliber metal ammo box available at any army surplus store.

What arms to cache? If you are considering caching any weapons, it makes sense to cache both your black outlaw firearms and your cheap surplus military rifles, the Enfields and SKS's and so on. The former may land you in legal trouble, the latter are inexpensive and may best prove their worth by waiting hidden and silent for the moment of need. Pistols also should be considered, particularly inexpensive surplus police revolvers. There is no other type of firearm which may be handed to a complete novice with confidence that the new shooter will be able to use it effectively on the first try, and you may someday be in the position of arming a complete novice. Millions of non-shooters may become ardent RKBA advocates in the years to come and you should consider arms for them as well as for yourself.

Where should you locate your cache?I will consider three broad areas: rural caches, urban caches, and underwater caches.

The Rural Cache: In the countryside, cache options abound far beyond the cliched hole in the ground, although that option is not to be left out In the boonies, look for old private junkyards, every big farm has at least one on the back 40 Rusty forgotten tractors, cars, refrigerators and farm equipment are made to order, full of hidden nooks and crannies where a rifle or three may be inserted, yet remain readily available. Of course, hiding firearms in and around old iron negates the chance of technical detection. Abandoned farmhouses, barns, ruins, and foundations provide countless hiding places, as do small caves, worked out mines, and graveyards. And of course you can just bury your package, preferably near or around some clutter of old scrap metal to provide magnetic camouflage.

The Urban Cache: In cities and towns you must be a bit more creative to find a good cache location which will remain undisturbed for years. Abandoned factories and warehouses, forgotten steam tunnels, scrap yards and neglected corners of basements and attics of some buildings may be used. You need to find a quiet dark out of the way corner were you can remove some tile or blocks or panels to create a mini vault, then hide by replacing the cover. Old large diameter pipes or pump casings may be used as is. Sometimes it is possible to create a cache by adding a bogus utility box or fake run of pipe which has no other purpose than to look old and nasty, and hide a gun or two.

The Underwater Cache: Arms may be sealed into a PVC pipe, then sunk for a great cache. Ammo packed inside around the arms will provide enough weight to sink the tube. Tie a strong nylon or monofilament line around the middle of the pipe, and lower the cache under an old rotten abandoned dock or wharf. So much junk accumulates under old docks that one more slime and barnacle encrusted pipe section will attract no attention at all. Tie the top end of the line to a piling down under the waterline, the entire line will soon be so nasty that no one will ever touch it, except you

Packaging the Cache: No matter where your cache will be located, you should go to great pains to make sure that it remains sealed and moisture proof. As mentioned, large diameter PVC pipe fits the bill perfectly. If you want access without cutting open the pipe, you can buy an end cap with a threaded center. For really long term storage, release the springs from your magazines and operating rods where possible. A chunk of dry ice dropped into a watertight package and allowed to steam off before sealing will purge out the rust producing oxygen. Store bought silica desiccant bags may also be used. Wherever ammo is stored, beware of using penetrating oils, as in time they may deaden the primers.

Plastic five gallon buckets with sealed lids may also be used, as well as heavy duty white water rafting bags, marine flare kit boxes and containers, surplus military ammo and ordnance boxes and many other types of containers. Where possible, for long term storage seal the lids with a bead of silicone glue.

Where tight cache space is a consideration, you may have to merely wrap your weapons in plastic. In this case use the biggest thickest heavy duty lawn and garden bags you can find. After placing the arms inside, suck out all the air you can, twist the end, put a few strong wires ties around the neck, fold it over, and put more wire around it again. Then do this again inside another bag. Long rifles which will not fit in a bag will have to be wrapped in industrial plastic sheeting, taped up, and kept in a fairly dry location. This type of packaging may be considered where a weapon may be in a fighting cache , ready for use on short notice.

Locating Your Cache: Nothing is worse than stumbling around looking for a cache so well hidden that you cannot find it, so give a lot of thought to the landmarks you will locate it by, and write them down Don't put the entire location on one piece of paper (for security), just the final directions which will not make sense if the paper is compromised. Remember, your cache area may look very different in different seasons, so choose landmarks which will stand out in summer foliage or winter snow. It is a good idea to take compass bearings from several permanent landmarks, as well as pacing the distances where possible. Or you may locate the cache by aligning it with an old wall, or between distinctive boulders, just make sure the features are permanent: bushes and gullies may disappear. Be alert to construction around your cache, and if the survey stakes go up, move it out ASAP. You may use GPS coordinates, but consider that GPS may be degraded or turned off at any time, and mark your location the old fashioned way first.

Cache Security: When you look for a cache location, consider that you will need a cover for action to explain your presence in the area. If you jog cross country, go on hikes, bike or four wheel drive you have it made. The cache location must have terrain or vegetation cover to conceal your loading and unloading it: forget the cover of darkness , in this era of NVGs that is a thing of the past.

Before returning to a cache do some counter-surveillance: loop around the area looking for the watchers who may be staking it out, or a new utility box which may contain a remotely operated camera. When finally approaching the cache, don't go directly to it, first fish hook your trail, double back and observe your own path in to check for followers. Finally, walk right past your cache and make a false unload . If you are taken down at this point, they may not find the true cache, and your cover for action (eg.: taking a leak on a routine hike) may pass muster. Only when you are truly sure of your safety should you go to the cache and unload it.

In addition, you should leave tell-tales , small innoucuous secret marks which will tell you if anyone has disturbed and replaced your cache. It is a favorite trick of security forces to put tracking devices into cached weapons in order to follow the guerrilla back to his base and catch the entire band. A tell-tale may be a bit of thread or a pebble etc. placed in such a way that if the cache is disturbed it will break or fall out without the security forces noticing it.

In Summary: I hope this has been an informative and thought provoking article. Even if you do not think it is necessary to cache any weapons (or an E&E kit ) at this time, you will at least be able to take walks in the woods to scout out some likely sites for future use. Look for sites at various distances from your home from a short walk to a day's drive: don't keep all your eggs in one basket. It is a good idea to load a cache with some old tools just for practice. See if they rust, see if the local eleven year old boys find them, see if you can get in and out of the area without being seen. Practice makes perfect, so try some dry runs today so that you will be a seasoned pro if and when it becomes necessary to cache the war iron for real and for keeps.

And don't forget to BLOAT Buy Lots Of Ammo Today

Here are some tips that I've learned the hard way over the years:

Place bottled water in the bottom of your cache. If the bottles leak nothing else will get wet.

Never store leather articles in a cache that is air tight. Leather will dry out and become un-useable.

Store batteries separate form their devices(lasers, radio's and GPS).

Pack as much as possible in vacuum sealed bags.

Last thing in the cache should be a small daypack, just so you can carry everything away quickly.

Keep the location secret!!!!! Reading Yankee Canuck's post above QUOTE' " I know a man who says he keeps a survival kit in his wife's flower bed."

He better not count on it being there when he needs it!

It took a while to get back about it, I got real busy. The 12" pipe caps are available and not too expensive. I bought mine a few years ago and then I paid 14 dollars per cap they have went up about six dollars.

Anyone who works retail needs to save the desicant (Sp?) packs that many products come packed in. The plastic ones are great, but the fabric ones are too, depending on the quality.

Already doing it!!

That's a good idea but, one can get larger quantities here:

http://www.nitro-pak.com/product_info.php?products_id=664

I've also used a 'modern-day cosmoline'. It's a product manufactured by LPS. It's their LPS3. It goes on and dries with a waxy surface. The wax can be 'cut with a fingernail and it will eventually heal itself. I've personally left a couple of small sheets of steel in the back yard that had this covering applied. Both sheets were left for 2 years! Rain and shine, summer and winter. No rusting was evident. It comes off in boiling water or with gun scrubber, or brake cleaner. I used the spray cans for this test. I later went out and bought a couple of gallons.

If HR1022 goes into effect, there will be a lot of midnight gardening going on!

Where does one acquire that LPS3?

And the midnight gardening thing is a great idea as well. I was thinking about 12"PVC and end caps for my babies. I also read that if one does that [in the PVC] one should use up all the air within the PVC before planting with a lit, cut-off birthday candle.

The article said to seal it up nice-n-tight with some dessicant and the burning candle, wait 5 minutes, bury it 12-18 inches below grnd level & put a few plants over em and that should do the trick. It sounded logical to me.

Anyone disagree?

A Patriot2 you are exactly right. Been there done that and it stayed for 3 years with NO problems so i replanted it.

Can't disagree with that, I have mine under a rock but flowers should work, removing the air slows down any corrosion, I've wrapped mine in silcon socks, and added dry packs and a little vasoline around the top lid to seal and make it easier to remove.

since i work in a mall i can aquire packs as much as i want..i even have a person in a shoe store that is collecting them for me..and years ago(pre Y2K) i collected them from drug stores the ones that come with the giant pill bottles..

Thanks for the "confirmation", guys! It sounded feasible to me so that's what I'll do.

I am definitely thinking about planting em under my portable back yard fountain in a flower bed. I think that the distraction of the perdy lil fountain and flowers would be the perfect hiding place. I believe in the "hidden in plain sight" theory. Now, I have to acquire the PVC and get on it ASAP.

sidenote:
A relative of mine said that he recently had a "surrepitious" entry/raid [while not at home] by the cops due to some lady who had falsely accused him (simply accused him mind you) of being a terrorist. He told me that due to his burying of his boyz toyz under a bunch of storage items in a basement type area, they overlooked the toyz and moved on. He discovered/confirmed the "entry" through another neighbor who noticed the activity.

That's what I want. For them to totally miss em if they come lookin.

Don't put them under the water fountain! They copied your thread and wrote it down for future reference. This is not a private board. OPSEC. At this time you would be best served by putting a booby trap under the water fountain. Booby trap is not a bra!

Any store that sells LPS products should be able to order the #3 for you. I bought mine thru a tool store. PVC pipe can be picked up from a local handiman/DIY store. 12" pipe will need to come from a plumbing wholesaler.

There are several books and videos out there about caching and secret hiding places. Most of them are pretty good.

SIDE NOTE ON PVC. Several years ago, just after the first ban went into effect, I went to the local lumberyard to buy some PVC. The largest I could find on the shelf was 4". I asked the young girl working in the department about the 6" and why the shelves were empty. She was only about 17-19. She came right out and told me "You will have to use 4" and take the stocks off!"

If you cache in your own yard,make your cach harder to find by burying several empty metal paint cans and beer cans in your yard. This sounds like a beginning of a good article! I'm starting to write it now.

Paint and beer cans are a great idea. Also any other scrap steel that is easy to get under 2 inches of ground.

Patriot & Rudy-
10-4 on the Oop's. I think the false readings idea is a great one. Collecting cans as we write.

But truthfully, anyone who read my post and belongs to uncle scum, their gonna tear up the back yard with a fine tooth comb anyway. Think about the mass murderers and serial killers (of past news stories) who've buried their "projects" in their yards. Their yards looked like a pack of wild gophers got loose in em.

False positives on the metal detector would be the only way to discourage em.......if they're "discouraged" at all. Most of those guys are tenacious and go till they can go no more (unless someting distracts em to move on).

Bottom line, I will weigh my words more carefully in the future as you are correct and I slipped up.

about the metal detectors, A friend of mine put a frost free faucet, you know the ones with the handle next to where he put his cache the have galvinized pipe running to them. that should throw off the detectors. just a hint. Hey put it next to a phone pole or conduit will do the same.

My home was built in 2001. The contractor, like so many other contractors buried some excess items around the yard. I found a roll of rebar tie wire with the lawn mower. The septic field was put in the wrong location so a second one was put in. Cement trucks were cleaned out in the side yard while I wasn't around.

I'm thinking of buying a bag of shot and spreading it with my fertilizer.

Rudy, you have an unused septic tank in your yard?

If you do thats a gold mine, what a stash!!!!!
Even if it was used at one time, have it pumped, flushed and if you store your items in 5 gal buckets with lids great.

Oh for those of you going "YUCK" you will be doing worse then that after the SHTF.

Ditto with GreyWolf! You had better make very good use of that sit Rudy.

Ok I have a silly question to ask. Why is everyone going to bury their guns? I know that they will be banned, but wont that just ban new sales? They cannot take your guns if you bought them before the ban. I know how do you prove when you bought them, well I went to the store I bought all mine at and got copies of the paperwork with all the dates.

Even if you don't do that how would they know what you have?

Or are we talking about a confiscation type situation? In that case bury them, I guess, but then how will you use them?

See my post for somewhat of an answer:
http://www.awrm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=000140;p=1#000009

Enough false positives and they'll get discouraged. All it takes is one good find and they will be hard to stop.

Easy solution is not bury them in YOUR yard. When mom and dad are on vacation bury something in theirs. Or find a secluded spot on public land and bury the cache tube only. See if it is undisturbed after about a month, and then fill it.

Now if your yard is over 25 acres or so, it could be safe to bury in it. If you have a buddy that owns a farm, see if you could bury it on his property.

Rudy-
10-4....I read ya.

Unfortunately the ONLY persons I know that have more than 1/4 acre are miles-n-miles away from my AO.

One's a buddy about 45 miles away. A relative lives 100 miles away. Both those R way too far 4 me & my liking!

I might try a public area. But, I underline "might"! I am NOT comfortable with that though. Again, I'd have to travel too far to retrieve em. Decisions - decisions!

I would love to tell you how to keep your caches close, but I will not discuss it on the board, I have something planned for the fall. Those of you who attend will be treated to some survival cache techniques that I have come across over the last 20 years, since I live in Alaska. Stay tuned I will announce in less then month.

10-4. I think I know what yer sayin, Greywolf.

A buddy and myself have discussed this on many ocassions. I'll wait for your "announcement" and we can go from there.

Use PM Greywolf. But i have a better idea. Don't bury the guns, use them. Dead man don't take guns. He just lays there nice and humbled. (forever).

Agree with the use the guns Idea, but since I can;t keep them all with me I like to have some weapons and ammo in good strategic hideouts. I would not want just enough to carry with me, I travel light and fast.

Greywolf. R U of American Indian descent?

You sound like it from that last statement, as well as my "light bulb" popped on about your monkier just now. "Greywolf" is an Indian moniker, isn't it?

Just curious.
Cordially,
A.P2

Yea, I am decendent from cherokee on my mothers side and some on my fathers side, but my great grandfather was a LT. in the 4th Va state line CSA. Of course you know the Cherokees fought for the south.

Just wanted to add a little clarification for John Hancock and Patriot for their above posts. I don't and I hope most of you aren't burying all your weapons. I have caches of weapons and ammo in several different locations. they are not in my front yard but are in areas I can escape to if I am in a defensive posture. I use 12" PVC because I can cut them to length for my rifles, the seal real well and if you put vaseline inside the top cap it removes easy and help waterproof the unglued top. I bury them under and item, rock bush rotten log,6" of dirt. I bury them vertical so I can remove the dirt or other cover and pull off the cap and retrieve my weapon and ammo. ammo is kept in a small box with a cord for pulling it from the bottom of the tube. If you do this once you arrive at your cache it will take you less then 5 minutes to be rearmed and ready.. Hope I answered any question. if not let me know I'll answer them...

Greywolf and others:

Here is a problem that I see we are causing ourselves. We all try to fill the cache container. We don't want a bit of empty space in it.

I'm going to start planting my caches with just one or 2 items in them and have multiple caches at a site.

Here's my thinking. I'm on the run and need some ammo from my cache. I'm being chased. I dig up my cache and take the ammo. I leave the rifle, food, webgear and batteries in the container. If I have time I rebury it and remove my spoil from the location. Good trackers will still be able to locate the cache.

If I can't rebury it, I've just lost everything that was in it to whom ever was chasing me.

First, I do not caches weapons and supplies, food in the same cache

second, My weapons caches are roughly 5' long 12" tubes buried vertical, top of caches are 6" below ground or cover by a small boulder. My food caches are 5 gal buckets stored in safe houses, supply caches same or bury in separate tube thats 3' long, buried different location and same configuration.

third, to open my weapon or supply cache you need to dig 6" down and around the cap or move a rock. once the cap is exposed, unscrew it if it is screw on type or pull it of if it is slip on with vaseline. empty cache, put cap on, and hand cover lid. It takes you more then 5 minutes to open empty and close, find a new line of work.

fourth, if you are being followed so close that you can not open the type of cache I just described. Do not go to your cache until you lose the tail...

fifth, I know you want to use all available space in you cache, or maybe digging holes ain't your thing. Many small caches are better then one big one with all your stuff in it. If you lose the big cache you've lost everything, with many small caches few with weapons few with food and few with gear, your lose one you have more... I spent a lot of years in the service of my country, I learned how to do thing the military way. I spent the last 20 years unlearning how to do it their way...Everybody is training to be a soldier, many of us were.... Stop now, train to be a warrior, live like your part of your environment, remember how the soldier you'll meet will do it, but you and I mean you better never do things that way. They know that way and will kill you. Make them spend years figuring out how you do the things you do. Again fight and think like a warrior, and it will take them years to figure you out.

sixth, I should not have to tell you all this, it better become 2nd nature...or you will die...

seventh, it was said by warriors " today is a good day to die". It was also said by another warrior, Gen Patton he would rather " make the other poor SOB die for his country".

eight, end of rant..

My point exactly!!!!!

What kind of rifles do you bury? Main reason for asking is around where I live they keep digging up stuff for new subdivisions, not to mention the cornfields, hate to lose an $800-$1,200 investment, especially if there is no need for it yet. So maybe like an sks or m44 or somethin? I could go for that.

My primary weapon is the AR15 platform. I've buried 2 full length AR's. My secondary weapon was an HK-91. I've now swithced to the FN, so the HK is buried with 17 magazines.

If you can find SKS's cheap enough, they are good for caching. It's even cheaper cache bolt actions. If you use the FN, I would look at caching a couple of the Lee-Enfields in .308.

My opinion is to cache a weapon that uses the same caliber as your primary weapon. In my case I can't find any inexpensive 5.56 weapons so I use the AR.
The HK was a weapon that I already had so it was cached. Since the magazines are not interchangeable with the FN, I cached them also.

I'm still using the HK as my platform, I dont have any other .308 yet. I think I might just buy some cheapo SKS's to bury. I dont really like them, so I won't mind burying them.

I know nothing .

I forget some of you live in cities... that does make it harder to bury. but if you live near a national forest, some where back off of the trails would be a good choice... you can bury on your property I guess if you have it next to the chain link fence or other none movable metal to throw off the metal detectors.. still a risk maybe less then in some field you don't know fate of... Of course if they sell it you should have time to remove at least the stores before the bulldoze it.

About the weapons buried, good suggestions above, I can not tell what I have buried OPSEC, but they are not easly replaced....

It wasn't the tank, it was the field that had to be replaced. I have 2 drain fields in my yard. My fields are 2 - 4" pvc pipe about 50'long. They have about 8" of pea gravel under them for drainage.

Another idea is a patio made from the concrete pavers or stepping stones.

Under an above ground pool or children's wading pool will also work.

In a childs sandbox should be a good choice.

Too bad it is not the tank... but I like the pavers idea...sand box seems a little too easy for them to check...But boy you thinking now

Possibly add a drain pipe into your plumbing drain, but seal it so the real drainage don't come through. It would take some planning to make it look "natural", but do-able for a quick way to get your gear. Oh, and for those of you never done plumbing, get some strong string, loop both ends, and saw through PVC.

Sandbox as in 30' x 30' with a swing in the middle and a slide off to one side. 6-8" of sand with some steel shot mixed in for starters.

OMG I feel sorry for the SoB that has to search my yard with a metal detector . I've got steal and brass cases littered all over my yard I hardly ever pick them up . they'll be digging for days and probably find about 2000 to 4000 spent rds. of various calibers :p .

I have said more then I should already on this subject... as all those books from Paladin press say everything I tell you here is "strickly for entertainment purposes"...

I have used bituthene (sp?), a thick rubber sheet with a super strong mastic glue on the back side. With the larger 12" pipe, I use it to cap off both ends of the pipe. It won't leak, and when you need access, you simply cut it out with your pocket knife. This stuff is very tough and sticky, and it has not given me any trouble yet. I have recovered piped that were buried for over 2 years with no ill effects on the contents. I live in a rain forest like environment. Bituthene is used for many water proofing applications in the building trades.

Where are some good places to bury caches in a suburban mountainous region

Is it rocky? Maybe it would be easier to disguise them rather than bury them.

On caching, I just read on another board about "Operation Gladio" and related plans.

These were plans made by NATO forces for 'stay-behind' groups of soldiers following a Warsaw pact invasion of their countries. The soldiers would organize and lead groups of citizens in attacking the enemy.

It seems that some (most) of these groups were to be supplied from caches that were built and stocked...in some countries, they were then forgot, and discovered during construction years later (how cool would it be to be digging a foundation for your garage and discover a cache with weapons, ammo and supplies for 50 people?)

A similar concept is in Vanderboegh's book "Absolved" where a misdirected from WWII railcar laoded with supplies plays a role.

The concept is probably valid: Problems include collecting the materials in the first place (obviously), packing them securely (the military is REALLY good at that sort of packing), emplacing the cache, and of course, security.

someone touched earlier in the post about dry ice removing the oxygen from the pvc pipe container and then sealing them, what about nitrogen gas (like in the car tires now) could this be used to push out the oxygen from the pvc container before sealing? thoughts?

Sure can. I packaged up a lot of wheat that way - I got a tire chuck valve with a pipe on the end of it hooked up to a tank of nitrogen - fill a bucket, stick the pipe in and give it a 5-10 second burst then close the bucket.

You don't have to displace all the oxygen: Just enough to keep bugs from surviving.

With the oxygen absorber packs, it's a lot easier.

I seen a guy that had taken a section of PVC and glued a cap on the bottom and screw caped the top.

He had drilled two holes in the side. The one toward the top he put a metal tire air valve in it.

The one on the bottom side he put one of those air tank drain water drain valves.

He teflon taped the screw cap.

Once he had it filled it with whatever he wanted he cracked that drain valve, then filled it with argon or other gases once the gas was escaping the drain valve.

He'd shut it and pressurize the container.

He said the higher press helped ensure no moisture inside.

It sounded good to me, but I've not tried it yet.

What do y'all think?

sorry double post

Time to cache all extra weapons....

not you field rifle, but your back up rifles and ammo...

Don't get caught with all your gear in one place.

Use all your caching knowledge, and make sure containers are water tight.

Not telling you to hide....telling you cache everything you don't need right now..

That way if a FED raid catches you off guard... you'll have backup when you are out of their grip.

Make sure all OPSEC papers are stashed.

anything that can bring a pinch.

If you have been posting on other sites things you should have use OPSEC on... then your in the crosshairs, cache everything...

And not behind your house please.

If you need to escape!!!

Don't run, you are probably being watched if your on their list. but plan your late night escape and safe house arrival. you must find a distraction, have friends cause an distraction.

Make sure your unit is on the same page and know your rally point... Hey don't send it over the phone or net. In person to each member with no one else around.

time to go undergound!!! not hide just covert. all ops should be covert now.

An alternative to the sometimes hard to come by, and always distinctive looking ammo can is to use a plain old gallon paint can....it's waterproof, cheap, nondescript (doesn't scream AMMO CAN), etc.

If you want to put some extra protection on it, spraying it with underseal would do.

That's a great idea and very "grey man" too.

remember to include a small 22 rifle or pistol with extra ammo in your cache as well as snare wires.

its also not a bad idea to include one of those survival skills books.