Families and WTSHTF

There is a question, a situation, which I have been pondering for some time now as I work to prepare my family for WTSHTF. I am sure that I am not the only person that has received the classic “is this guy a nut?” look from a family member when the discussion of preparation comes up. So the question becomes: When the SHTF what do we do for these family members?

A part of me wants ta say… nothing. It may come down to “Survival of the Fittest” – down to who has the most food and bullets to survive – and the dark reality of that question sinks in. The truth is there may be nothing we can do to save them. But another part of me – the moral part – says “hey wait a minute… this is your little brother (sister)… you’re SUPPOSE to protect them!” They question becomes even more complicated by the fact that we are a trans-continental generation with family members spread across this vast country of ours.

That being said is it beyond the scope and focus of this group – this forum – this communications outlet – to network amongst ourselves this concept as another component of our overall mission? Call it a “Friends of our Families” concept where “my family is your family” and such. I really have no clue or idea on exactly how to do this or if it is even plausible. I feel safe in saying it may be an ease on a lot of our minds knowing that if I could contact my (sister) in (Michigan) WTSHTF, I could say to her “get (here)”, “find these people and you will be safe”, or something like that. The reverse would work as well. Someone from (Georgia) with a brother (sister) in my area would know they could come to me for aid.

As with any idea, there would have to be some limitations. I would in no way ever expect another group to risk all to come to the aid of an aunt I have seen only once in the last twenty years, but a brother… a sister… a father… that could be different.

Maybe this is a radical idea and one that logistically would be near impossible to pull off. There is also the issue that many of us wish to stay “off the radar” for any number of reasons. Simply handing over information about ourselves – about our families – would require a lot of trust on all parties involved.

I know ther will never be any definitively correct answer but at least we can kick some ideas around. I am looking forward to your responses.

This deserves a longer answer than I am giving, but let me start with a few comments. First, this is one of the two main reasons, at least for me, why the guerrilla warfare model does not do anything for me. It leaves exposed to attack, part of what I am trying to defend.

This is why I advocate a "base camp" model, with a number of families and collection of patriots. One, that is easier to defend than stashes and people spread all over the place. Second, it is much easier to survive as a group - the collection of skills will be more diverse and I do "living history", which is more than Civil War reenacting and such - one of the lessons I learned in operating a 19th century farm is that is takes 2 to 4 people to make it work, and that is without fighting off "Indians".

Of course, the downside is that a fixed position is a vulnerability in that it defines your AO and makes us easier to target. However, that supposes that an opponent has sufficient resources to come after you in strength. As the S really HTF, I anticipate a widespread case of disorder, meaning a government entity has many problems to "deal with", and a community watch group will either be too difficult to deal with or not high enough on the radar screen.

I can only offer answers to your question and how it relates to my particular situation. Take it as you may.

I like anyone else have friends and family. They are scattered throughout the country and in different phases of the awakening. Some are so sound asleep you can hear them snore, others are just stirring and a few are awake and paying attention, while a very select few are actually preparing.

I do not command magical powers or unlimited financial reserves that would help with many to get with the program. I do have a computer (as if this wasn't obvious by me posting) and a DVD burner and printer etc.

In an ideal country, the word militia would be respected by all and people who prepare, even a little bit were seen as smart and ready for a rainy day. The media of course does what it can do demonize anyone who has half a brain.

If anuty Em wasn't so brainwashed with flouride and gameshows she'd probably be already involved in maybe an auxillary level, or at least be aware of the local good guys. My liberal minded sister would realize the depth of the BS in DC and pull her head out of rear end. The list goes on.

Well what can I do? I send articles from reputable sources, I make copies of Alex Jones films by the dozens. Yeah if you're one of my relatives you're gettin' them. I can't be there to slap you awake, so they'll have to do. I work on starting converstions that get them to think about what is going on and question things. When they seem receptive enough I lay it out on the table. At that point you have two options:

1. At least begin to wake up finally and actually start preparing

2. Ignore it all and be prepred for the biggest "I TOLD YOU SO" when the S hits the F

I can't save'em all, but I do what I can. If one wakes up two, those two wake up two each, and so on, it spreads and then at least I'll feel better knowing they're in good compnay where they are at. At least they may have a few cans of beans and a case of bottled water, which means they're better prepared than thier nieghbor.

I figure when it all comes crashing down, I may very well not have time to make mad calls, but I at least will have given them the knowledge and the tools to make a better go at it beforehand.

Most of my extended family thinks I'm wrong for preparing. Luckily, my wife's family thinks a little prep is just fine, but they're Canadians, eh? and are used to ice storms and the like.

We have suggested to both that they increase their preps - my family is almost all in So Cal so the big threat is earthquakes, and I phrase my suggestions with that in mind.

We live far enough away from both groups that we're not too worried about them showing up, but if they do we have enough food and space for them.

Basically you are talking about a safe house network for your family. I'd suggest you read Jefferson Mack's book "Underground Railroad". It's available from Paladin Press on sale for $6.30. Quantities are limited. You will find detailed information to help you answer many of your questions.

when we started preparing we talked about our elderly and handicapped the decision we made was to humanely do away with the worry or thought of them suffering .

Sounds strikingly similar to Nationalized Health Care.

Hmm. How do you humanely murder a loved one, comrade?

I'd ask Che Guevara if I could. You know that he had to be a curious sort of MD, as most MDs tend to focus on saving people's lives.

He trained as a medical student, but afaik never actually worked as a physician. Which proves something I've often said, medical school can make people crazy.

I think that we are all missing the Worst part of the picture. I don't think for a minute that there "WILL NOT" be a pandemic. If the feds run through the poorer sections of our Large cities and inoculate the kids with the same serum the used in Mexico we can be guaranteed a pandemic by October.
The answer is not guns and roses it is a sit down with your kids and tell them why not to take the shots. If they get Quarantined get with some neighbors and start a home school for the kids.
If they get pushed into the shots by the school then cleanliness and antibiotics and power foods are best.
I am sure one of our medico's here can give us a better remedy than me.
Just as a precurser. Today I went to my Dr over a spider bite. One of the questions I was asked was if I had received my Flu shot. I lied and said yes.
That will be asked a lot until after the October Pandemic.

I love knowing that whentshtf you boys will be turning circles to keep the wheelchairs and gurneys moving slowly towards ...... . WTF snort some instant coffee or something boys it will be a survival of the fitest marathon to be able and hold a position that will insure the maintaining of our constitution and freedoms .
You could wake up to marshall law and military control in your town tommorrow . You will only be as fast as your slowest man .
AS, i see it you must constantly be on the move .Avoid any and all non-militia contact .
I do not think much of a person that avoids logic and therfore is not prepared when logic is critical for the survival of your people that will fight!

You forgot killing loved ones.

Wow, Rules for Radicals is looking better every day. :rolleyes:

Look, fine, you're as fast as your slowest paraplegic. Sorry Quadriplegic vets, you're on your own when the feces hits the atmospheric oscillator, We're runnin' without wheels, pal.

Seriously? Humanity will be the last thing we have, and as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather die for someone that needs help rather than live knowing I abandoned them to their fates (or outright killed them for... 'mercy').

Helping those in need is a form of charity, and the christian thing to do (No, I'm not necessarily a christian, but by god I sound like one more often than not, seems) is to give UNTIL IT HURTS... Then give some more.

Compassion is one of the most important things a human can have.. to abandon it because of self preservation is a sure road to anguish.

Further, attitudes like that don't win the hearts of the people.

...Like Leonidas said, "May you live forever."

O.k. I'm off of my soapbox now.

Tangalor,

Three thumbs up.

tangalor I like your reasons .They are just dandy. I like knowing and i am sure that the dis-abled veteran knows he will be an asset to leave behind as they will know the importance of their situation and yes any expenditure of enemy energies is advantageous . Like the drain of providing internment of civilians .
my old and dis-abled do not have that war hardened advantage , their choice not mine . EYE just agree with the logic of it .
Maybe you should too ;)but yours not mine .

oh and also Tangalor my objective is preservation of a way of Life not self-preservation it is just in the package if you are sucsessful and WIN !

Understood. I do not know any vets without limbs, nor do I currently have affiliations with anyone with serious disabilities (save a few grandparents, which COUNTS!), but I'll say this: The time for withdrawal from those in need is the time we should all just lay down our arms and give up.

We need those people. We need them, and they need us. The only way I could abandon them is if they told me to do so for the benefit of the children or summat, and even so, with a heavy heart and with no alternative WHATSOEVER, would I do such a thing.

We need them for their wisdom and fortitude (you tell me it doesn't take fortitude and determination to live such a life, and I'll tell you I'm Wild Bill), and they need us because we can be their salvation from things which otherwise could kill them.

You can do what you like, and I pray you safe haven.. Me? I'll take the chance, and I'll take the responsibility of taking care of them. If I fail? I tried. If I succeed? I tried. I expect no quarter from ne'er-do-wells, nor favored treatment from allies just because I did my human duty and passed through without quarrel.


Let me say this last thing: It is my fondest hope that nothing ever happens to anyone, ever. It is destiny that things WILL happen that is beyond our control. The only thing we control is our actions. Control is an illusion, at best... and a downright lie, at worst.

So, whatever happens, my control, my conscience, will be to do what I must, what I can, with what I have, and hope/pray for the best.

Anything else is pure manure, and a cop-out, or lie.


earl3, Take these words not as a lashing, if you should take such things, but as an alternative to your suggestions.

Tangalor ,
Your choices as an individual are based on an emotional instead of a logical concept .your free choice. I am with you totally with the I pray it never comes to it . Logically it is already here , it is pushing up in different places everyday . The propaganda spin from all parties involved has gotten so ridiculous that i had to quit watching and go back to the old adage believe none of what you hear and half of what you see , maybe you'll make out .
Happiness is being in Heaven 1 hour before the devil knows your dead ,lol

Earl3
It is with a steady hand that I say I am glad you are not in my part of the world.
The mission we all (supposedly) accepted when we aligned ourself with the militias was to protect the very people you are ready to throw under the bus. These are the people who if things get hot you will need in place to provide your group with Intel, Food, and maybe Ammo. That is unless you have a force that can crack an Active duty supply depot and get away. Or perhaps you plan on sitting out the first stages in an underground bunker sipping suds and watching CNN.
However before you start "weeding out" those weak, trembling old timers in my part of the world remember you won't be one of the survivors if they see you coming.
Most of the Senors here about were humping a ruck in Vietnam, Desert Storm, and Most of South America. They may have lost the bounce, but they still have the sight picture.

Hey safewalker , whoa up son . i am talking about a guerrilla group .constant mobility , heck,i am tore up as all heck and will be hard pushed in a running battle ! I can hold my own and a little extra .
I am one ask how i felt and I said KICKIN AND SCREAMIN , i will take as many of the enemy as God be willin !
So git off the bus lighten up try to observe objectively NOT emotionally U dummy try to save the herd but acknowledge acceptable casualties !

safetalker it is with an un-steady BOOT , that i scream WTFRUDHere? Cuz you are the enemy to me and mine , hello,HELLO, hey hello ! Thats you wondering if you are in my jungle . i do not know you ! U will get no compassion from me or mine not given, nor taken .
See you when ,when i see you (hope you got some neat stuff;).

Oh one more thing. I swore allegiance to the "Constitution of these United States ..."
Nuthin about me and the anchor peoples until sumethin 'bout Militia's ...
go fiqure .
Hear the cry from far away ,hope for revolt to prevail there.. sh-h-.. MY God man do you not hear ? yonder cry to arms ?
well what be you say !
Then ah saays yes colonel i doos hearse it
TWO ARMS, TWO ARMS !!
Looks like simon never got the joke the guys pulled on him
huh ?
yeah the no armed baby, baby one
Oh.

Don't know where or why you swore that....

When I joined the military, it was to "...Support and defend the Constitution of the United States, against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same....".

And you may want to stop in the clinic, and get your meds adjusted....

Well, here's another aspect of this thread,
what do we do with our wives? my wife is not the type who believes in shtf. Are we leaving our families behind? or are we taking them with us? because right now from what I can tell, there's not a very structured militia group in my area. and should shtf, I believe it would be me and my brother, not very good odds. what will you all be doing with your wives, children, etc?

She'll be a believer if the S does hit the F. I run into much of that down here also, I am very upfront with the men that, if their wife and family are not on board in an emergency situation, if they are not mentally prepared to do what is needed to survive, they will only be a drain on the group in terms of poor attitude.

I would rather have people around me in a tough situation with a positive attitude, and can do spirit, than someone who has a lot of gear and craps everyone out with incessant whining and complaining.

My wife and boys are completely on board on what is needed if an emergency situation develops, and are prepared to see it through. If spouses are reading the news, keeping up with financial information, and political issues, I find it difficult to believe they cannot see the need to be prepared.

If they are not, perhaps you should point out articles for them to read. This is what I do with my family when I came across news in various main stream publications. I can recommend ZeroHedge for financial news which will talk about issues, other rags with political agendas and ties won't discuss.

Folks,

This is the stock answer and story line I use to get my point across to others.

Do you know who the first survivalist in history was? The answer is simple, Noah and his Ark.

I am being faced with the same decisions as Noah. I am preparing myself and my family for a storm. With food, med supplies and all of the gear I feel I need to insure the survival of my family. Read into that anything you choose or choose not to.

When you come to my door asking for help. I have a few choices.

1. Open my door to all who come and turn none away. That would result in my supplies being run out quickly and then I have no means to care for my own family and would have to become a predator to survive. That is not a viable solution!

2. Keep a certain amount of supplies on hand to "donate out" to those that come to your door, like some rice and beans so that you have helped a bit, but those supplies will run out sooner or later. Then you will have to turn them away.

3. If you do not help folks at all and it is a short term problem you will end up being the most hated person in your community for your actions. Even though you are "right" in your view point it will not matter to those that got turned away and all who listen to thier tounges wag.

Which leaves us to a viable solution for me.

4. Folks I have tried to help you. Like Noah I warned you of the storm that was coming. I told you to prepare for your familys. You called me crazy, stupid, a nut case.
You treated me in the same manner that the people of the time treated Noah when he tried to warn them. So while I worked, saved my money and sacrificed to put away food supplies, medical supplies, and the means to protect me and mine. You choose to go out to dinner 2 or 3 times a week, go to the NFL football game, you went on vacation to europe, you buy a new car every year, I am driving a 8 yr old car that is in great shape and so forth.

The classic case of the fable of the Ant and the Grasshopper.

So now, like Noah, when the storm is now here. When the cries and pleas of those who came to Noah for help when the storm hit, did Noah open the doors of the ark to help them or did he leave them to the fate of thier own making? He did not help them. They were left to thier own fate.

I am sorry, I cannot help you know. I tried to help you. I told you what was coming. I advised you on what you could do to help your familes. I am sorry that you did not listen, but like Noah, I cannot help you now. You are on your own.

Most folks when you explain this to them in the simple terms and the biblical comparison end up looking down and saying "you are right, I need to do something". They then know that thier fate is in thier own hands. choose what ever mets your needs, but choose wisely!

To include this is important as well.

If I am wrong, and nothing happens or comes, how have you been hurt by preparing yourself and your family a bit? You are now a bit more self suffient and not so dependent on everything having to be OK to live and survive. You are out nothing! Call it your own version of life insurance!


5.56

Wow some wild responses on here about killing…WTF?
All I know is I worry about my soul first then my wife and kids then my own survival, killing granny is just plain sick, evil…etc

As far as family members go if they think your wrong now they will have an instant attitude adjustment once a situation arises.
My own point of view is if they show up fine but everyone who can, will contribute or they are out. In my case anyone who is in range to show up would have skills to contribute and thankfully may be bringing their own stockpile as well. Luckily over the years I have rubbed off on mine and my wife’s family members so my place would simply be the furthest from the city or smaller urban centers and a likely gathering point if need be.

Just remember if you make a decision and cant live with yourself afterwords for making it...was it worth it?

Train/teach the family in the event that something happens to you.
Make sure they know alternate route to basecamps,safe houses.
Make sure they all have there own BOBS,and how to use.
Know how to locate your cashes.
How to shot and scoot.
How to improvize everything.
How to forige for food,and how to find and purify water.
Last learn to fight for freedom.

I never actually thought about comparing it to Noak and his Ark. that was well put i believe.

5.56 I liked and will use your analogy in the future. I am a widow now, so basically a single mom raising my family. However that is no excuse for not being prepared and in my view it is a cowardly frame of mind to use that fact as an excuse.

My son's are aware of all going on and the need to prepare. We all live together and each of us have different skills. Each of us continue to learn how to advance those skills and learn new skills so when SHTF we can take care of us to the best of our ability.

Lady,

Well said in regards to taking care of yourself and your family. My preference is to not engage, keep low and not draw un-due attention.

Just a chuckle from a different point of view now. Looking at the gear lists of a Bug out bag. Wonders where I would bug out to. We are so country here that we have a hitching rail for the horse and buggies at the county court house.

I do know the terrain pretty well off road in the woods for several miles around. But it is getting built up now-a-days. The best thing we can all do is EDUCATE as many people as we can on the merits of being self-suffient in the face of adversity, floods, snow storms, ice storms.

That in itself breds confidence of being the master of your own fate instead of being a sheeple. Some folks cannot help themselves, they know nothing different. All we can do is to try to educate and lead by example.

A good example. 3 or 4 yrs ago over Christmas we lost power in this region, some areas where without power for up to 3 weeks. We had a severe ice storm. My area was knocked out for 8 HRS short of a full week. Many years ago I hard wired in a 10K Generator in the garage with a 6,500 Watt spare in the barn. I was basically the only one who had power and fuel. LOL We lost power a month ago for a day and a half. Bet I counted 20 homes in the area close by that now have generators like myself.

Lead by example, show the masses that there are better ways. Be a good Noah and his ark. Others will start to pay attention. However, when the balloon does go up, those who have not made alliances and show up in anothers A.O. will most likely be seen as invaders.

Riddle me this....The balloon has gone up, You are with your militia buds, you relocate to another A.O. to escape what is going on in your own A.O. with the best intentions. If you have not made alliances, do you think you will be welcomed with open arms by the occupants of that A.O. or seen as a group that needs to be put down with extreme prejidice?

This country is a shining example of the best there is even with all of our faults! That is why folks want to come here for a better life. We need to protect our Republic because there is no place left to go folks! This is the last haven/refuge.

Food supplies, without them you will become a predator to try and survive! Be self-suffient, make a difference!

5.56

If we have a war to restore the constitution unless your wife is a GI Jane Rambo your best solution is to give her a big kiss good bye and send her with the children to go stay with friends or relatives. Most wives would only make noise and slow you down. For most of us here our home address is on FEMA's Priority Red Arrest List and they will be coming to our homes. Feds came to my house shortly after I put our website up.

Some of my associates and I have been discussing this very thing. Most families are not set up for the husband to go off and fight for weeks or months at a time. Their families need them to survive on a day to day basis.

We are kicking around the idea of forming a unit for Civil Defense and Family Services. One of my associates is too old to be running around, my knees, allergies keep me from being able to be active several months of the year... So we will concentrate on using our skills and resources to be set up to protect other men's families.

I have a large house. I put bunk beds in each of the kids rooms. Their play room has another bed in it. The couch fold out into another bed. The other couch can sleep one more person. Basically.. my house could sleep 7 more people currently. Once I get the 2 additional bedrooms set up in the basement... and locate a few more bunk bed sets... That will greatly increase the amount of people we could bunk here...

It doesnt cost any more for heat to house more people... will probably cost a little more in electricity. We have our own well and septic systems. So more people will just mean that the grocery bill goes up. And that can be largely taken care of by using more beans, rice, corn, wheat, sprouts, greenhouse products, increasing the size of the garden, fishing, and hunting.

Just an idea that we are working on here. Any helpful ideas would be greatly appreciated.

+1!

And in addition to (or instead of) bunk beds, consider some cots... either GI type, or the somewhat larger and more comfortable type that Cabelas (for example) sells for hunting camps: You can get even more people in, without using all your floor space during normal times.

Well, question what are your families going to do if you die tomorrow.
One way or the other they will get by.

I stumbled on to this thread today... I feel like I fell down the rabbit hole...Kill all disabled or old people...kill your family so the enemy can't get them... WTF did we all join Jim Jones or something.. I am glad I didn't see this when it was fresh... I might of said some really bad things to a couple of them... who the f%ck is earl3 anyway and where do we get what ever he was smoking...

I never paid much attention to the topic, but if someone is posting that freaky shit, ban them immediately.

Yeah just remember murderers like he might become should be hung higher than the enemies.

Either a sociopath or doesn't have a loved one that requires some special care and advanced planning. Would you do your damned best to pull your own boy's body off the battle field to bury him or just leave the hindrance to rot?

Had some Art Bell fan do his family in during the 1990s where I used to live because he did not want his kids to "see the coming holocaust" from whatever end of the world BS theory Art Bell was talking about at the time.

Guy went to a nuthouse and probably will not get out for the rest of his life. Had a mental breakdown when the world did not end and all he was was some guy who nutted up and shot his family. Was probably on dope.

I heard about suicide rates being pretty high in the Jewish Ghettos during WW2. The thing was older folks sometimes offing themselves in order to save resources for younger family members who were escaping or trying to hold out longer. Occasionally someone pending capture or with suffering children did it. It is something dealt with in the religion going back to the Maccabees and then later at Masada and currently with the Sampson option.

It is not a survival plan but a game loss plan in the context of revolution or SHTF. Game loss plan is for scorched earth on all usable assets (including human assets) then surviving effective combatants engage in suicide strike tactics to prevent the enemy from ever consolidating a victory. Again, the Masada option slightly modified. It is rumored to have been practiced a few times by crusader kingdoms in the Middle East prior to being overrun by Islamic hordes. Serbs and other ethnic groups in the Balkans were also known to do that sort of thing a few times in history.

I don't think it is really the American thing to do.

This is the worst topic on AWRM.
We (the militia) are NOT AT ALL murderers. We do not kill our own for ANY reason. This freaky weirdo Earl3 is just plain weird. Glad he ain't around here no more.

Well said.

Ditto

Wow, what a sickening thread.

Killing people, mercy shootings, leaving your family behind.

WTF is going on in people's heads?

I guess the concept of caring about your fellow countrymen, or even family, escapes some sick people.

How can anyone expect to win a war dragging their family with them? Men have always gone off to war while the women and children stayed home. Women and children would make too much noise and slow you down if you took them with you. After they kill you they would kill your family too for aiding and abetting you. Anyone who does not realize this is in denial, needs to stop living in dream world, and wake up to reality.

Bug out to a rear operating base (ROB), build some hasty defensive positions, leave the rear-echelon mother fuckers (REMFs) to man the defensive positions, monitor the radios, run the rear-operating base, and most importantly, guard the families. Then the operators (those physically able to run-&-gun and trained to do so effectively) move out to establish a forward-operating base (FOB) considerably closer to the action. Then the operators conduct combat operations from the FOB. Meanwhile, the REMFs back at the ROB are continuosly improving upon those hasty defenses initially constructed. So when the operators finally come back to the ROB for a break, what was a fox hole when they left will now be a completely camouflaged bunker. The REMFs are also training any new recruits that might show up, and doing any other duties they may have around the ROB.

The main thing is that the operators know that their wives and daughters are safe and in good hands 'back at the ranch' while they're out raiding an enemy outpost at 2am in the pouring down rain.

This is not necessarily any unit's plan, but I do believe that it is a good one.

I like it

That is a good plan that can work but the rear operating base could be discovered and the enemy could just drop mortar rounds in on them. The REMFers need to also keep them all ready to bug out at all times with escape routes planned and fall back positions set up too.

I dearly love women but there will always be more women to be had so I don't get so sentimental over any one woman that I could not kiss her good bye if I needed to.

Mortars, artillery, MLRS, helicopter launched missiles, drone launched missiles, bombs, cruise missiles.....

Which means whatever it is you are doing is worth at least a battalion level effort (of which there are less than 200 in the force structure + some special operators), because that is the unit size that has access to those resources.

Not exactly a battalion after you. Whoever it is will have access to those resources, just like any other squad or platoon in the US military does.

Even the Iraqi Hajjis have plenty of mortars.

I don't think things have changed that much since I was a BN S-3 and ASST BDE S-3, where except for SF, those missions have to go through the BN FSO - even to get fire from the BN HHC mortar PLT. (exception for certain CAV TRP TO&E)

Even if it is only a squad coming after you, the rest of the company can't be far behind, and that company can't operate independent of the BN logistics tail.

My point is that it is good to have an AO where those kinds of units won't go without substantial effort.