You know, Greywolf, if it were only the robbing of a few civil rights here and there to get the bad guys, a little dark and dirty but necessary business, then I could and did tolerate it. The problem now is widespread indulgence in robbing of people's civil rights with the false excuse of "getting the bad guys".

The problem with this "Turnkey Tyranny" is that every major political faction in this country has had a turn at running it and is refusing to shut it down, and in every single case proved themselves morally unworthy to wield it's power.

It's not just the lies and excuses, but you look at the personal experiences at this point, with people in this forum who had been attacked arrested, informed on, set up. The fatalities. Most of us relaxed when Bush got elected, the militia movement was at an all time low as people just volunteered for the regular military, then now, look at how those casualty numbers worked out vs what got accomplished.

I hate to be the one who has to bring this up, but since Obama got elected, it has been easier to keep .gov off our backs through the threat of revolution than it was to keep ourselves from being betrayed and backstabbed by the Republicans.