Hi,

Scored big time at the local milsurp shop. Got 7 pouches of bread (the pouches containing a condensed high calorie piece of bread) and I use them all the time for various things. Love them and only paid 20 cents each. Also got 2 MREs in packaging which were pork patties. They had a few others, but I'm not paying 10 bucks for a MRE pack that I don't like.

What do you generally pay for items which I deem essential to militia ops?

1. MREs.I pay 10 for a entree, bread or tortilla, fruit pouch, juice mix, spread and sometimes a dessert (usually a stale cookie. Sometimes really disgusting and maybe dangerous to eat)
2. Ammo. What are you all paying for 308 ammo?
3. Sleeping bags. I get a decent bag locally for 100 bucks at an outdoors store. There are sales, but usually not on quality gear.
4. Uniforms? I just got a line on 18 dollar South African tunics. There are a bunch left. They have two breast pockets, no lower pockets (I think. Only had a brief look). They also have USA and Brit uniforms. Canadian uniforms are harder to find because the CADPAT is the newer option and it's used by active service personell, and somehow it hasn't filtered down to the secondary market at a reasonable price. Obviously, if I were to see combat, I'd like to wear a Canadian uniform, but if I were facing a guerilla war on my country's soil, I might actually have a reason to wear regular BDUs. I do wear my BDUs during hunting season, but usually with my Walmart parka and duck boots.
4. Propane. What are you paying for those cartridges you use on a portable propane stove?
5. Food. What are you paying for a canned ham? How about a fifty pound bag of salt? What does a pound of navy beans cost? Pasta? Where are you buying your non-MRE low impact foods.
6. Water. I'm paying between 2.97+deposit through to over 5 dollars plus deposit for 12 liters in 1/2 liter bottles. Around here, we add drink mix to make iced tea, not pop or energy drinks.

What other items have gone up or down lately? Even the candy aisle at the dollar store is nearly empty, while the tinned food aisle is fully stocked. I guess that means that people wuld rather buy a candy bar than a tin of beef or chicken.


Just figured I'd ask around and see wh

1 $70 a case at the "right" surplus store and that means a bit of travel, not worth buying less than four cases so it means pitching in. Prowling Craigslist every few days can sometimes get you $5-$6 MREs and $60 case which are close to date but still good. A good friend of mine discovered the HDR, which is Humanitarian Daily Ration. It is the large vegan version they give once a day for refugees. You add your own meat and it works as a single large meal with snacks. By that I mean equal to an XL meal at a burger joint. Like the HDR with some meat over the campfire and you are good to go. Otherwise, it's a full day of food for 125lb peope not doing much physical activity. If you are desperate, a can of generic spam from the dollar store will level it out, or some beef jerky. You get the idea.

2 Ammo. Not in a position to comment much on that, but from what I can observe, one guy ordering large lots from Palmetto State Armory or Cheaper than Dirt is the way to go. Otherwise, pick it up in person at gun shows, but that's only worth your time if you are getting several cases. Time, gas, parking, show admission. That's not to mention nosy pricks looking over your shoulder when you are borrowing the ammo guys hand truck or bringing your own.

3. Some auction sites like govplanet have deals on field gear. I am larger (fatter) now than when I was a skinny 168lb Marine and by the time I was a 225lb national guards guy, the issue bivvy bags were feeling small. At 300, I have to get the custom stuff these days from the big chain outdoor stores. I notice washing one of those monster size sleeping bags can be a bit of a chore, but they sure are comfy. My field kit is still a woobie and two ponchos, but the new USMC style that is just more lies a tarp. You can catch sales at Cabelas and similar stores.

4. Again, my issue is that I need XXL on everything, so surplus is out. I gave away most of my standard size stuff over the last few years. I tried a few XL items from a surplus store out at FT Lewis, but there are so few XXL Rangers ther is little luck finding multicams in those sizes except I once lucked out on some stuff from a guy who was on medical profile and on instructor duty at the Ranger school. The stuff was pretty worn though. I had to just belly up and buy new, and at full price, the best out there is Propper Battle Rip fabric. It's about $8 per item more than standard but really tough stuff. I was using the pants as work clothes before I discovered the fire hose pants from Duluth Trading. If you want solid color stuff, Duluth is the way to go. The FBI was doing that for a while, modded Duluth stuff in brown instead of 511. It's $75 for good pants, $65ish for tops. Reality is that Duluth is superior stuff and does not scream "tactical guy" when you are trying to be covert. You can hit the fall and holiday sales and get the pants around $58-$60 a pair. Not that hard to look like a forest service contract worker from a distance and nobody says shit. One time I had to go retrieve a cache during a first fire, it was my only option, and then I got to thinking that my "camo" to go get my stuff back was not camo, so if I got spotted I would be ignored, and I was out there to grab a pack of high end cammies I had stashed with some camping gear in a way unlikely to survive the fire.

4 little propane cylinders are $5 each at Walmart. I think two for $7.50. At least that's what it was last winter. I was going through one every night in my motorhome since I don't use the big on board propane system (I am paranoid about fire, seen too many campers newer than mine get burned up). I got one of those kits for refilling the little bottles from a big bottle but it never seems to work. It seemed that getting the bigger tank filled and using the big tank to bottle size adapter hose is okay, but something about the way the hose ends work on those, makes them compatible between some tanks and devices and not others. It's a bit of a hassle but it works if you get adapter hoses from a few brands to try out.

5 Daily groceries come from the grocery store and I live in a town with the best restaraunt deals in the world. Cooking means I won't ration portion sizes and then get fat. Eating out on a budget kind of limits that and I don't do junk snack food. If I handle the cooking, everyone fattens up a bit. I can kind of budget stuff, but usually with my cooking, I can be pretty efficient with high calorie stuff and do it in ways that all of the fat calories are consumed. Thus, boiling meats like high fat content ground beef or whole chicken produces more calorie per pound in the meal than say, broiling. The trick is adding olive oil (low grade works, high grade is better). Olive oils, salt, sugar and vinegar in any stew or chili or pasta dish mixes with and helps metabolize the animal fat. Starches absorb the fat and there is your high calorie tasty stuff. Leftovers get repacked and frozen. I mention this because I would imagine you go a big chunk of the year in Canada where frozen food can just sit in a box outdoors and last well enough through a camping trip. For me, the stewpot runs $15-$25 for one pig out meal, and then enough frozen dishes to microwave convenience meals into the weekend if I am alone, or a bunch of people visiting.

I stocked up a few grand in survival food from Walmart and the Mormon Cannery before my supplies got ripped off in a series of survival retreat takeovers, so now I have to risk getting shot to get any of it back. Every time they even hear a rumor that I am heading within 100 miles of the place the local posse group guns up and starts standing watch. It's not far from the Canadian border...last time I was there the food at both locations was untouched. Ransacked for guns and valuables of course. Alcohol all gone...the recent view from google earth seems to indicate that someone probably took off with the firewood that was at one place, several truckloads worth. That's two homicides, armed robbery, some assaults and political corruption over the wealth to be gained in survival retreat looting, but nobody gave a fuck about food supplies. My takeaway lesson on that is in the early stages of SHTF, everyone willing to lie, cheat, steal, kill and betray friends will have done so or be doing it in full force before real food shortages are a real problem.

5 Water - I occasionally buy gallon jugs for a buck at the dollar store. I won't pay a deposit on the smaller bottles unless it is a straight convenience issue or a short term food cache. A little alcohol in a canteen or rinsed out juice bottle seems to keep the water from getting funky. Using clear plastic juice bottles for water and seeing how that looks after a few months with nothing in there to sterilize it will definitely keep you from wanting to leave opaque canteens full if you are wise, or up the alcohol content to the point that microbes won't grow. That is unless it's your thing to drink bleach or iodine, which are poisonous I might ad, and my camp is always a no-sharia law zone.

1. I don't do MRE's. Yes, I know, they weigh less. But they weigh less because they take out the water - and you need that water anyway. Cans of Dinty Moore Beef Stew - or a store brand or generic alternative - along with a can of fruit cocktail and a multivitamin - is a very cheap and tasty alternative.

6. Water - There are a few water filters on the market now that are acceptable for both emergency and every day use. With the Big Berkey water filter, I figure I get store quality filtered water for about two cents a gallon. You can't beat that.

Onward and upward,
airforce

for fast, convenient and private eating, nothing beats the MRE. Pull over on the side of the road, find a discrete spot, chow down.

The two can thing works kind of. But that's a little bit dependent on warming times. Very economical though. I notice that a lot of new stew cans come with pop top lids now but they are pretty shitty to eat cold. Cold MRE, not so bad. Hence everybody who eats them regularly has spare MRE heaters around. I also never cook during an operation and carry enough fat that if I skip a meal it's no big deal. I notice that dehydration does not hit me as hard either. All that mess kit and cooking stuff never goes far from the vehicle and if it does, then that's just to base camp.

The big Berkey is strictly a cabin or base camp item. Kind of awkward to put in the camper where shelf space is at a premium but I guess someone could in theory justify it. What I am trying to rig up is a battery powered pump and hose system that uses an inline filter and can then process water for filtration without having to manually operate the system.

All the little manual pumps and straw thingies are ok if you are limited to hiking in and going to be somewhere for a while, but if it is short term, you are unlikely to get that far from the vehicle, so that stuff ought to stay around the vehicle. If it's around the vehicle, the it might as well be DC powered. If it is DC powered, then you can run it off a carry out battery pack of some sort.

The cans aren't hard to warm up. A hexamine tablet (or two or three, depending on the size of the can) will do it, as will a sterno heater. Both the stew and pork and beans can be eaten cold, I've done it with C-rations many times. (I refuse to eat canned spaghetti cold. Or warm, if I can help it.)

A squad on patrol is not going to lug around a Big Berkey. But a family can include it in their 72-hour bags, because mine does. If you're tactical, you carry your water. But if you carry MRE's because you're tactical, you have to carry that much more water. You really don't save anything in weight.

True, the MRE's are more convenient. But you're paying a pretty hefty price for that convenience, and I'd rather spend that money elsewhere.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Yeah, I get you on that, but I never spend the night very far from the vehicle I use for getting to the area where I am doing something, I am unlikely to leave the vehicle unattended, and when I start factoring storage space, weight, cargo volume, time and fuel constraints, MREs keep coming up the winner. Then one last stop at the dollar store before heading out to grab gallon jugs of water and some energy drinks.

Mountain House a close second condisering that my off grid stuff has microwaves. The motorhome has a conventional microwave and the new setup that I am putting together as the eventual replacement for the travel trailer is getting the 12v microwave I bought a few years ago. That goes with the Mountain House stuff, in fact, the microwaves get stuffed with mountain house pouches for transport anyway. When making some food, I pull all the stuff out of the microwave, then put back what's left after cooking. Another issue being trash disposal. MREs and mountain house mean no dirty dishes. My version of "no trace camping" involves garbage bags and worst case scenario, campfire and a shovel.

In all of the scenarios I look at which involve bugging out or storing pre-positioned supplies. Cargo weight and storage volume are cost issues, so I factor out water storage and minimize wet food in general. What you would see around my stuff is large empty water containers, pumps, hose, filters, not a lot of water except some commercially packed galling jugs and maybe a couple racks of water bottles. Hate to say it, but the rack of water bottles are also a grab and go sort of thing at any refugee camp type places. Seems to be the first thing they ever get to handing out in quantity.

Besides that, my main SHTF plans involve mostly bugging in, assessing the situation and then putting together a team to go raiding the fuckers who ripped off my supplies and screwed my people over. Raiding parties need to travel far, fast and light. That just don't happen like a long three day hike in the mountains.

On a related note - one that may seem obvious but apparently isn't - if you're heating the contents of a can, loosen the lid first, and wear cloves or something when handling the can. It will be hot.

If you're some old fart who still has his P-38 GI can opener from Vietnam on his key chain, loosen the lid until there is about 1/2 inch or so left. the lid will serve the same as a lid on a pot, so the contents warm faster. The cans with the pull-top lids need only be lifted up a little bit.

You're unlikely to get a face full of boiling liquid by failing to do so, unless the can is really super-heated, but it is possible.

If you choose to heat the can by immersion in hot water, you need not do this since the can will never get hot enough for the contents to explode out of the can. But you will still want gloves to handle the hot can.

Onward and upward,
airforce

A phone call from an old military buddy reminded me of this topic. My commander in Vietnam, George Hull, once told me that I had only one meal my entire time in Vietnam. Continuously.

Yeah, I guess I was a chow hound back then, but there really wasn't much else to do, and back then it didn't really show around my waistline (like it does now).

Onward and upward,
airforce

Checking e way guys do those engine manifold can heaters, I don't think they pop the lids. If the can bulges then it bulges, but nobody wants engine compartment fumes in their food. You wear gloves anyway when handling the can. I have looked into something complex that works as a heat exchanger off the headers but the people at the parts store say that anything on the headers that interferes with heat dissipation can make the mild steel pipe go brittle and bare headers last longer. I am looking at copper tube wrapping that passes to a fluid and heat exchanger reservoir.

In the past, when the heater was stuck in the on position anyway, I just stuck MRE packets up on the dashboard and after an hour or so they are just right, but it's not enough heat to warm up canned food. It is enough to thaw stuff out and make the microwave more efficient.