AWRM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151932
09/01/2010 12:50 PM
09/01/2010 12:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,747
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Offline OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,747
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Obama Administration Reverses Course, Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles

By Maxim Lott

Published September 01, 2010 | FoxNews.com

The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.

The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.

A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.

"The transfer of such a large number of weapons -- 87,310 M1 Garands and 770,160 M1 Carbines -- could potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes," the spokesman told FoxNews.com.

"We are working closely with our Korean allies and the U.S. Army in exploring alternative options to dispose of these firearms."

Gun control advocates praised the Obama administration for taking security seriously.

"Guns that can take high-capacity magazines are a threat to public safety," said Dennis Henigan of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Even though they are old, these guns could deliver a great amount of firepower. So I think the Obama administration's concerns are well-taken."

But gun rights advocates point out that possessing M1 rifles is legal in the United States -- M1s are semi-automatics, not machine guns, meaning the trigger has to be pulled every time a shot is fired -- and anyone who would buy a gun from South Korea would have to go through the standard background check.

"Any guns that retail in the United States, of course, including these, can only be sold to someone who passes the National Instant Check System," said David Kopel, research director at the conservative Independence Institute. "There is no greater risk from these particular guns than there is from any other guns sold in the United States."

M1 carbines can hold high-capacity ammunition clips that allow dozens of rounds to be fired before re-loading, but Chris Cox, chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, noted that is true about any gun in which an ammunition magazine can be inserted -- including most semi-automatics.

"Anything that accepts an external magazine could accept a larger capacity magazine," Cox said.

"But the average number of rounds fired in the commission of a crime is somewhere between 1 and 2 … this issue just shows how little the administration understands about guns."

He called the administration's decision "a de facto gun ban, courtesy of Hillary Clinton's State Department."

Asked why the M1s pose a threat, the State Department spokesman referred questions to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. ATF representatives said they would look into the question Monday afternoon, but on Wednesday they referred questions to the Justice Department. DOJ spokesman Dean Boyd referred questions back to the State Department.

According to the ATF Guidebook on Firearms Importation, it would normally be legal to import the M1s because they are more than 50 years old, meaning they qualify as "curios or relics." But because the guns were given to South Korea by the U.S. government, they fall under a special category that requires permission from the State Department before any sale.

Kopel said that he hopes the State Department spokesman's statement that it is working to "dispose" of the guns does not mean they want to melt them down.

"It seems to have this implication of destruction, which would be tremendously wasteful," he said. "These are guns that should be in the hands of American citizens for marksmanship and safety training."

Asked whether melting the guns down would be a good option, Henigan said: "Why let them into the country in the first place? If there is a legally sufficient way to keep them out, we think it's perfectly reasonable to do so."

Past administrations have also grappled with the issue of large-scale gun imports.

The Clinton administration blocked sales of M1s and other antiquated military weapons from the Philippines, Turkey and Pakistan. It also ended the practice of reselling used guns owned by federal agencies, ordering that they be melted down instead.

In contrast, 200,000 M1 rifles from South Korea were allowed to be sold in the U.S. under the Reagan administration in 1987.

A decision like that would be better for everyone, Cox said.

"M1s are used for target practice. For history buffs, they're highly collectible. We're going to continue to make sure that this backdoor effort that infringes not only on lawful commerce but on the Second Amendment is rectified."

Henigan disagrees.

"They clearly were used as military guns, and the fact that they likely can take high-capacity magazines makes them a special safety concern," he said.

The White House referred questions on the issue to the Pentagon, which referred questions to the U.S. Embassy in South Korea, which deferred back to the State Department.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...es-course-forbids-sale-antique-m-rifles/


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151933
09/01/2010 01:35 PM
09/01/2010 01:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,944
Tulsa
airforce Online content
Administrator
airforce  Online Content
Administrator
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,944
Tulsa
It's nice to see that Fox News finally picked up this story. Eugene Volokh was talking about it two weeks ago .

Interestingly, the rifles were part of a lend-lease program, which means the South Korean government is barred from selling or transferring them without U.S. approval. If the rifles were sold through the Civilia Marksmanship Program, with Korea and the U.S. sharing the proceeds, millions of dollars would be raised and both governments would benefit.

Unfortunately, Ronald Reagan isn't President anymore.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151934
09/01/2010 01:53 PM
09/01/2010 01:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,823
Trapped in Rhode Island
L
Lord Vader Offline
Member
Lord Vader  Offline
Member
L
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,823
Trapped in Rhode Island
Actually we don't even currently have any President. Bush regardless of what anyone thought of him was at least a Legal President and not an illegal usurper of the Presidency, like the commie bas***d currently occupying the White House.


VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151935
09/01/2010 02:00 PM
09/01/2010 02:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 41
Minnesota Wisconsin Iowa
Mom4rmHell Offline
NCO Contributor
Mom4rmHell  Offline
NCO Contributor
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 41
Minnesota Wisconsin Iowa
This is one of the biggest screwovers of the American people in history. Of course, if those American rifles were allowed to fall into the hands of thoughtful American people, it might influence American history and might restore some degree of American independence.

That certainly can't be allowed to happen, now can it?

Now one of The (not our) government's arguments about letting these American rifles "loose" in America is that they will increase "gang violence." I'd love to see some SOB try to pull an M1 out of their waistband to commit some crime.

Really folks, how stupid can "our" government helpers get?????


"I tried to find a female drill instructor's hat for the mom from hell, but couldn't. Anyway, thanks. Basic was a breeze." Son's graduation, Ft. Benning, 1998.

"A good weapon is the best form of health care." T. Donnelly
Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151936
09/01/2010 05:46 PM
09/01/2010 05:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 153
Dallas, TX
L
LouisCipher777 Offline
Member
LouisCipher777  Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 153
Dallas, TX
who the hell uses an M1 in a crime? can anyone point to even a single case?


Never explain yourself. Your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe you anyway.
Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151937
09/02/2010 12:50 AM
09/02/2010 12:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,944
Tulsa
airforce Online content
Administrator
airforce  Online Content
Administrator
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,944
Tulsa
Quote
Originally posted by ConSigCor:
A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.
However, if the government falls into the wrong hands... mad

If it's any consolation, I've heard that most of these 60-year-old rifles are in pretty rough shape.

And if you;re wondering why South Korea doesn't simply offer them for sale to Koreans, it's because gun ownership is a capital offense in South Korea. And these are our "allies." :rolleyes:

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151938
09/02/2010 03:43 AM
09/02/2010 03:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,169
43BN-37FF
Rudy Offline
Moderator
Rudy  Offline
Moderator
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,169
43BN-37FF
Put me down for a couple of carbines.


Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."
Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151939
09/02/2010 04:00 AM
09/02/2010 04:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,864
Okanogan County Washington Sta...
S
STRATIOTES Offline
Administrator
STRATIOTES  Offline
Administrator

S
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,864
Okanogan County Washington Sta...
12 million firearms were sold IN America in the first year of office, 850K is nothing, especially when most of the firearms were good quality AR15's that sold, companies increased production to meet sales demand, so now many retail stores have a good stock of qulaity firearms.

Yes it would be nice to see the old rifles get some use but if this spurs people to get serious about a decent modern rifle it is not such a bad thing.

Quote
"A standing army we shall have, also, to execute the execrable commands of tyranny; and how are you to punish them? Will you order them to be punished? Who shall obey these orders? Will your mace-bearer be a match for a disciplined regiment? In what situation are we to be? The clause before you gives a power of direct taxation, unbounded and unlimited, an exclusive power of legislation, in all cases whatsoever, for ten miles square, and over all places purchased for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, etc. What resistance could be made? The attempt would be madness. You will find all the strength of this country in the hands of your enemies; their garrisons will naturally be the strongest places in the country. Your militia is given up to Congress, also, in another part of this plan; they will therefore act as they think proper; all power will be in their own possession. You can not force them to receive their punishment: of what service would militia be to you, when, most probably, you will not have a single musket in the State? For, us arms are to be provided by Congress, they may or may not furnish them." Patrick Henry, Shall Liberty or Empire be Sought?, from a June 5, 1788 speech in the Virginia Convention, called to ratify the Constitution of the United States.


PISTIS en XPICT faith in Christ
Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151940
09/02/2010 06:11 AM
09/02/2010 06:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,317
Central Virginia; VIM
S
SBL Offline
Senior Member
SBL  Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,317
Central Virginia; VIM
These rifles would be sold to three types of customers, with the third type being the most important:

1. Patriots like us looking for a decent priced quality battle rifle (perhaps even to use as a DMR).

2. The crusty old veterans who were issued these rifles back in Korea. Many of them don't trust "those new plastic space-age guns."

3. The gun-owning sheeple who are intimidated by "A-salt" rifles, yet would like to own a good quality semi-auto rifle that uses a caliber suitable for hunting.

Notice that the people in category 3 are the same people who often ask you "Whatd'ya need one of them thar AR47s fer anyway?" You can spot them at the gun store when the employee behind the counter suggests that they might want to check out a Remington R15, they say things like "No no no! I don't want anything that looks like a machine gun!"

These people are going to be the Johnny-come-latelys when the SHTF. They won't be willing to take up arms against tyranny until some Homeland Security goon rapes their daughter or wife. When they show up, do you want them to have only a bolt-action hunting rifle? Or do you want them to have a solid good quality semi-auto?


On equipment: You get what you inspect, not what you expect.
On training: Our drills are bloodless battles so that our battles are bloody drills.
On tactics: Cheating just means you're serious about winning.
Re: Obummer Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles #151941
09/17/2010 12:26 PM
09/17/2010 12:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,469
Philistine Occupied CA
I
Imagrunt Offline
Moderator
Imagrunt  Offline
Moderator

I
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,469
Philistine Occupied CA
Quote
Originally posted by STRATIOTES:
12 million firearms were sold IN America in the first year of office, 850K is nothing, especially when most of the firearms were good quality AR15's that sold, companies increased production to meet sales demand, so now many retail stores have a good stock of quality firearms.

Yes it would be nice to see the old rifles get some use but if this spurs people to get serious about a decent modern rifle it is not such a bad thing.

I could not agree more, and I will add that .30 carbine ammo is still scarce, so buyers would have shelled out FRNs for an old rifle, only to learn that ammo is expensive and hard to obtain.

On the other hand:

ARs are still cheap, and .223/5.56 is still plentiful.

God Bless what remains of America!


I would gladly lay aside the use of arms and settle matters by negotiation, but unless the whole will, the matter ends, and I take up my battle rifle, and thank God that He has put it within my grasp.

Audit Fort Knox!

.
©>
©All information posted on this site is the private property of the individual author and AWRM.net and may not be reproduced without permission. © 2001-2020 AWRM.net All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1