AWRM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
SWAT murders Marine #152885
05/12/2011 04:09 AM
05/12/2011 04:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Online content OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Online Content OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Quote
SWAT team fired 71 shots in raid



Fernanda Echavarri Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011

The Pima County Regional SWAT team fired 71 shots in seven seconds at a Tucson man they say pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home.

Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine who served in Iraq twice, was holding an AR-15 rifle when he was killed, but he never fired a shot, the Sheriff's Department said Monday after initially saying he had fired on officers during last week's raid.

Six days after Guerena was shot, few details about the investigation that brought the SWAT team to the southwest-side home Guerena shared with his wife and their two young sons are known. Guerena's role in the narcotics investigation is unclear and deputies would not comment on what was seized from his home.

Three other homes within a quarter of a mile from Guerena's house, were served search warrants related to the investigation that morning. The addresses and the names of people who live in the other homes have not been made public.

Vanessa Guerena says she heard noise outside their home about 9 a.m. Thursday and woke her husband who had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at the Asarco Mine, she said. There were no sirens or shouts of "police," she said.

Guerena told his wife and son to hide inside a closet and he grabbed the AR-15 rifle, his wife said.
Read the rest here...
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.html


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152886
05/12/2011 07:24 AM
05/12/2011 07:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Breacher Offline
Moderator
Breacher  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Yeah, that was repoted on assaultweb too.

Anyone local in a position of getting some more info on this?

Working overtime at a mine is not exactly your profile for a gangbanger doper. In either event, this gets classified as a prohibition related killing, not a drug related killing.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152887
05/12/2011 11:17 AM
05/12/2011 11:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Online content OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Online Content OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
The murderers deliberately let the man bleed out. mad

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14629829/medical-care-blocked-for-man-killed-by-swat

Former Marine killed by SWAT was acting in defense, family says...

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14621212/marine-killed-by-swat-was-acting-in-defense-says-family

He hadn't even released the safety on his rifle when they lit him up.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152888
05/12/2011 02:17 PM
05/12/2011 02:17 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A


Quote
Originally posted by ConSigCor:
[b]The murderers deliberately let the man bleed out. mad

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14629829/medical-care-blocked-for-man-killed-by-swat

Former Marine killed by SWAT was acting in defense, family says...

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14621212/marine-killed-by-swat-was-acting-in-defense-says-family

He hadn't even released the safety on his rifle when they lit him up. [/b]
BASTARDS!........They time will come,and soon!

Re: SWAT murders Marine #152889
05/13/2011 01:15 PM
05/13/2011 01:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,823
Trapped in Rhode Island
L
Lord Vader Offline
Member
Lord Vader  Offline
Member
L
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,823
Trapped in Rhode Island
I will only say this for now since I am still trying to calm down from initially reading this. Lets just say my Blood is Boiling and I mean Boiling.

These Cops committed a premeditated Murder in the First Degree and the Penalty for Murder is Life in Prison or Death and in this case I believe Death under the Hooves of Horses, Arizona does have a lot of Horses or lacking horses under the Track of a Large Dozer would be appropriate.

These Atrocities committed by Law Enforcement Goon Squads will not stop until these Badge Wearing Goons finally pay the price for the Evil that they do and the Price must be payed by the Goons themselves not just by their Employers.

The Penalty for more minor Offenses like breaking into a Citizens home should be financial like $100,000 minimum from each Goon plus what ever the Citizen can get from the State, County, City or Town Government that these Goons worked for and lets not forget the Federal Governments responsibility for the Federal Goon Squads.

And for Killing of a Citizen the penalty should be Death and not a quick and painless death but a death to really fear like using horses etc on them.


VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152890
05/13/2011 02:34 PM
05/13/2011 02:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,864
Okanogan County Washington Sta...
S
STRATIOTES Offline
Administrator
STRATIOTES  Offline
Administrator

S
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,864
Okanogan County Washington Sta...
Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

“These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

“One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

“Story affirmed the right of self-defense by persons held illegally. In his own writings, he had admitted that ‘a situation could arise in which the checks-and-balances principle ceased to work and the various branches of government concurred in a gross usurpation.’ There would be no usual remedy by changing the law or passing an amendment to the Constitution, should the oppressed party be a minority. Story concluded, ‘If there be any remedy at all ... it is a remedy never provided for by human institutions.’ That was the ‘ultimate right of all human beings in extreme cases to resist oppression, and to apply force against ruinous injustice.’” (From Mutiny on the Amistad by Howard Jones, Oxford University Press, 1987, an account of the reading of the decision in the case by Justice Joseph Story of the Supreme Court.

As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)


PISTIS en XPICT faith in Christ
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152891
05/13/2011 05:20 PM
05/13/2011 05:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,317
Central Virginia; VIM
S
SBL Offline
Senior Member
SBL  Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,317
Central Virginia; VIM
These cops are out of control. They need to have their armored personnel carriers and their machineguns taken away from them because they can't use them in a responsible manner.

Exactly what evidence was there to justify a search warrant on that home?

The judge who authorized the search warrant, the commander of the SWAT team, and every single cop who fired a shot there needs to be brought up on murder charges.


On equipment: You get what you inspect, not what you expect.
On training: Our drills are bloodless battles so that our battles are bloody drills.
On tactics: Cheating just means you're serious about winning.
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152892
05/14/2011 06:48 AM
05/14/2011 06:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,469
Philistine Occupied CA
I
Imagrunt Offline
Moderator
Imagrunt  Offline
Moderator

I
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,469
Philistine Occupied CA
Quote
Originally posted by SBL:
These cops are out of control.

They need to have their armored personnel carriers.

The judge who authorized the search warrant, the commander of the SWAT team, and every single cop who fired a shot there needs their machineguns.
I fixed your post in order to reflect the reality of the situation, and I used all of your original words.

If you take away their weapons, then they will not have power over you.

Thus the threatened tyrant further defines himself.


I would gladly lay aside the use of arms and settle matters by negotiation, but unless the whole will, the matter ends, and I take up my battle rifle, and thank God that He has put it within my grasp.

Audit Fort Knox!
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152893
05/14/2011 09:06 AM
05/14/2011 09:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,535
somewhere-where am I?
J
J. Croft Offline
Member
J. Croft  Offline
Member
J
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,535
somewhere-where am I?


Be your own leader

freedomguide.blogspot.com
freedomguide.wordpress.com
youtube.com/user/freedomguide
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152894
05/17/2011 02:27 AM
05/17/2011 02:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,763
43/18
McMedic Offline
Senior Member
McMedic  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,763
43/18
Quote
Originally posted by STRATIOTES:
Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest
Unless you live in Indiana.

Re: SWAT murders Marine #152895
05/17/2011 11:36 AM
05/17/2011 11:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,535
somewhere-where am I?
J
J. Croft Offline
Member
J. Croft  Offline
Member
J
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,535
somewhere-where am I?
INDIANA KILLS OFF 4TH AMENDMENT, US SUPREME COURT BURIES IT
The enemy is really rushing to finish off the Bill of Rights-not that decades of dumbing down in their schools and by their cultural and media partners hasn't reduced the first 10 Amendments to a near-forgotten myth in the eyes of the oath traitors.

http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/16/scotus-flushing-your-toilet-negates-your-4th-amendment-rights/


SCOTUS: Flushing your toilet negates your 4th Amendment rights
Monday, May 16th, 2011

In an 8-1 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that cops do not need a search warrant to enter a home if, after banging on the door, they hear sounds that suggest evidence is being destroyed.

Residents who “attempt to destroy evidence have only themselves to blame” when police burst in, said Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr.
Here is my translation: “Cops who wish enter a home without a warrant may now do so by claiming after the fact that they heard the sound of evidence being destroyed”.
Because, there is no such thing as the sound of evidence being destroyed. It’s not like a gun shot or a scream or loud music.

In a lone dissent, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she feared the ruling in a Kentucky case will give police an easy way to ignore the 4th Amendment. “Police officers may not knock, listen and then break the door down,” she said, without violating the 4th Amendment.
Is anyone still under the delusion that the government is there to protect your freedom?
RIP Fourth Amendment.
Thanks to Agitator reader Buddy Hinton for the link.
[Posted by Dave Krueger]

http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/...es-ears-without-warrant-a-farewell-post/


Supreme Court grants cops power to follow their noses, ears without warrant (a Farewell Post)
Monday, May 16th, 2011

[UPDATE: I see that Dave Krueger wrote about this same issue just moments before I hit "publish." Please enjoy a second helping of 4th Amendment absurdity.]

Much thanks to Radley for the opportunity to blog here at the Agitator over the past several days, and to the Agitator community for all the lively and thoughtful discussion in the comments section. I was apprehensive at first to start blogging here, since criminal justice is definitely not my beat, but I suppose Radley knew that when he asked me to guest-blog, and he must have had his reasons for wanting to expose his readers to my style of femmi-libertarian thought. I thank those of you who took time to reach out through my blog, twitter, or email to express support or encouragement. I had fun, I hope you all did too.
Now then, onto business: It seems that police do not need a warrant to kick in a door if they smell marijuana and suspect the occupants are destroying evidence. The Supreme Court ruled 8-1 that as long as cops knock loudly, announce themselves, and then hear the sound of evidence being destroyed, it’s totes gravy for them to kick in the door and enter.

Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., writing for the majority, said police officers do not violate the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches by kicking down a door after the occupants of an apartment react to hearing that officers are there by seeming to destroy evidence.
In dissent, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote that the majority had handed the police an important new tool.


“The court today arms the police with a way routinely to dishonor the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement in drug cases,” Justice Ginsburg wrote. “In lieu of presenting their evidence to a neutral magistrate, police officers may now knock, listen, then break the door down, nevermind that they had ample time to obtain a warrant.”
Justice Alito asserted that this decision only concerns the suppression of evidence when the police themselves create exigent circumstances. According to the Times, Alito wrote that the police merely knocking on a door and announcing themselves would not create a circumstance that would pressure an occupant to destroy evidence. However, police knocking on the door and threatening to enter without a warrant (or in an otherwise unlawful manner) would. But then, doesn’t this decision essentially grant police the power to do exactly that? Knock, announce themselves, hear literally anything that could be construed as “destroying evidence,” and then enter without a warrant and search for evidence of illegal activity? I’m no legal scholar, so if there’s a logical explanation for such Kafkaesque legal reasoning, I’m all ears.

In any case, this decision leaves a lot of discretion up to police to judge which actions sound like “destroying evidence” and which do not. Does flushing the toilet count? What if the resident had actually had Chipotle for dinner? Isn’t just continuing to smoke or consume marijuana technically “destroying evidence?” Does this allow for cops to announce their presence, wait fifteen seconds, claim they can still smell marijuana, and then break down the door?
[Libby]

So how do your public servants react to this? From the stalwart defenders of your rights at Officer.com:

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?165133-Warrants-no-longer-necessary-Indiana

Go ahead and click on the link, get even more pissed off.

The solution is YOU.

YOU must remove the oath traitors-the prosecutors, the cops, the judges that write their own laws. They're one big happy family... and it's past time to take that happiness away. Along with their jobs.

The only solution that works is the one arrived upon by the brave GIs of Athens Tennessee in 1946; form a full campaign ticket, run out the rats in elected positions then fire en masse the oath traitors. Or fire upon the oath traitors, but mind you you'd better have a plan on what to do after that.

I'd opt for the recall election, but hone your marksmanship and combat skills nonetheless.
http://freedomguide.blogspot.com/2011/05/indiana-kills-off-4th-amendment-us.html


Be your own leader

freedomguide.blogspot.com
freedomguide.wordpress.com
youtube.com/user/freedomguide
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152896
05/17/2011 12:41 PM
05/17/2011 12:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
airforce Online content
Administrator
airforce  Online Content
Administrator
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
I\'m starting to think that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik just isn\'t much good at his job.

Quote
The Pima County Sheriff’s Department will release no more information about the circumstances surrounding the killing of Jose Guerena during the serving of a search warrant by the department’s SWAT officers May 5 at his home.

Two weeks after the shooting the department has yet to disclose exactly what they were searching for in the Guerena home as well as three other residences in the area that were subjects of a drug investigation. Court documents that show what officers were searching for in the case have been sealed and what was seized as evidence has also been sealed.

Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, through a department spokesman Tuesday morning, declined an interview request.

No one from the department will comment about the case until the investigation is complete, Deputy Jason Ogan said Tuesday. There is no timeframe for when the investigation will be over, he said....
Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: SWAT murders Marine #152897
05/25/2011 12:18 PM
05/25/2011 12:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
airforce Online content
Administrator
airforce  Online Content
Administrator
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
Radley Balko\'s article on the death of Jose Guerena. (It's also his first article for the Huffington Post.)

If Guerena was as dangerous a criminal as they're now saying, then this is one instance when a no-knock warrant would be justified. Why all the lights and sirens, giving him warning?

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: SWAT murders Marine #152898
05/25/2011 01:46 PM
05/25/2011 01:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,823
Trapped in Rhode Island
L
Lord Vader Offline
Member
Lord Vader  Offline
Member
L
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,823
Trapped in Rhode Island
Well it seems the Badge Wearing Bastards hit him 60 times and he never even took his weapon off safe.

These murders have to END and END by any means necessary.

Remember that TV Court Show The Peoples Court.

Well I say when the People can not get Justice in the Government's Courts it becomes necessary for the People to get Real Justice in the Real Peoples Court.

The Good People of our Nation need to have a secret Star Chamber or Chambers which will dispense True Justice on People who are Above The Law.

If a Regular Citizen commits a Murder the Penalty is Life in Prison or Death so if a Cop or other agent of the Government Murders a Citizen and since the Regular Citizens don't have prisons, the Penalty will need to be Death.

Equal Justice Under The Law is a Farce and Very Sick Joke, and the only way for the common Man or Woman to get Justice is to either have a Real Peoples Court or to simply get Justice their own way in effect Take The Law Into Their Own Hands.

And someday and I feel it will be fairly soon someone will get Justice their own way and whatever happens happens.

If anyone reading this actually read Unintended Consequences you will know that the book was about Government Goons attempting to frame a Man who knew how to fight back and had the balls to fight back and that is what will eventually happen.

Take what happened in Tucson and change a few details.

What if the Murderers had hit his home when he was still at work and it was his wife who confronted them with the Rifle and had been the one shot 60 times.

And what if this Marine seeing that the Badge Wearing Murderers were going to get fully away with the Murder of his Wife decided to take the Law into His Own Capable Hands.

If he is worthy of being a Marine then he knows how to fight against these Murderers which means that he will fight then under his conditions.

I wonder how those SWAT Cops would do against a Battle Hardened Marine who had one thing on his mind, REVENGE and who was willing to die just as long as he took the Murdering Bastards with him.

The way I look at it SWAT won't do too good if it goes against a Combat Vet in the Bush. SWAT is mostly trained for Urban Fighting like when they do one of their Home Invasions they will not do very good in the Bush or where they can not control the situation fighting against a Combat Vet who has a good rifle.

And I feel it will not be very long until they Murder a Loved one of a Man who has the skills and the means and the willingness to fight back and get his REVENGE. And that just might be the start of the Civil War if the Cops do as they often do and like they did with the DC Sniper and go to Extremes and target Innocent Gun Owners and other Innocent People.

The Clock Is Ticking.


VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152899
05/25/2011 02:37 PM
05/25/2011 02:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Online content OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Online Content OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Mike V sums up the current state of affairs pretty well...

Quote
Murdered Citizens, Dead Cops and Assassinated Judges: Judicial Support of Police Tyranny and the Law of Unintended Consequences.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. -- Fourth Amendment to the Constitution.


Just another day at work for America's militarized police:

A Tucson, Ariz., SWAT team defends shooting an Iraq War veteran 60 times during a drug raid, although it declines to say whether it found any drugs in the house and has had to retract its claim that the veteran shot first.

And the Pima County sheriff scolded the media for "questioning the legality" of the shooting.

Jose Guerena, 26, died the morning of May 5. He was asleep in his Tucson home after working a night shift at the Asarco copper mine when his wife, Vanessa, saw the armed SWAT team outside her youngest son's bedroom window.

"She saw a man pointing at her with a gun," said Reyna Ortiz, 29, a relative who is caring for Vanessa and her children. Ortiz said Vanessa Guerena yelled, "Don't shoot! I have a baby!"

Vanessa Guerena thought the gunman might be part of a home invasion -- especially because two members of her sister-in-law's family, Cynthia and Manny Orozco, were killed last year in their Tucson home, her lawyer, Chris Scileppi, said. She shouted for her husband in the next room, and he woke up and told his wife to hide in the closet with the child, Joel, 4.

Guerena grabbed his assault rifle and was pointing it at the SWAT team, which was trying to serve a narcotics search warrant as part of a multi-house drug crackdown, when the team broke down the door. At first the Pima County Sheriff's Office said that Guerena fired first, but on Wednesday officials backtracked and said he had not. "The safety was on and he could not fire," according to the sheriff's statement.

SWAT team members fired 71 times and hit Guerena 60 times, police said.

In a frantic 911 call, Vanessa Guerena begged for medical help for her husband. "He's on the floor!" she said, crying, to the 911 operator. "Can you please hurry up?"

Asked if law enforcement was inside or outside the house, she told the operator, according to a transcript of the call, that they were inside. "They were ... going to shoot me. And I put my kid in front of me."

A report by ABC News affiliate KGUN found that more than an hour had passed before the SWAT team let the paramedics work on Guerena. By then he was dead.

A spokesman for Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said he could not discuss whether any drugs had been found at the home or make any other comment. "We're waiting for the investigation to be complete," he said.

In a statement, the sheriff's office criticized the media, saying that while questions will inevitably be raised, "It is unacceptable and irresponsible to couch those questions with implications of secrecy and a coverup, not to mention questioning the legality of actions that could not have been taken without the approval of an impartial judge."


In recent days the increasingly out-of-control federalized paramilitary police mini-armies that currently rule over the cities, towns and hamlets of the United States have won important court victories in Indiana, New Mexico and in the Supreme Court, that validate their ability to engage in unrestricted criminality against innocent citizens under color of law. It doesn't take god-like perfect prognostication to understand that these decisions by the black-robed Mandarins who look out for the interests of the "Ruling Class" at the expense of the "Country Class" will lead to more murdered citizens, and, in short order, dead cops and assassinated judges.

In Indiana:

People have no right to resist if police officers illegally enter their home, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled in a decision that overturns centuries of common law.

The court issued its 3-2 ruling on Thursday, contending that allowing residents to resist officers who enter their homes without any right would increase the risk of violent confrontation. If police enter a home illegally, the courts are the proper place to protest it, Justice Steven David said.

"We believe ... a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," David said. "We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest."

Justices Robert Rucker and Brent Dickson strongly dissented, saying the ruling runs afoul of the U.S. Constitution's Fourth Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure, The Times of Munster reported.

"In my view the majority sweeps with far too broad a brush by essentially telling Indiana citizens that government agents may now enter their homes illegally -- that is, without the necessity of a warrant, consent or exigent circumstances," Rucker said.


At least one Indiana sheriff has concluded that if in his opinion he "needs" to conduct random searches, he will.

In New Mexico:

The New Mexico Supreme Court has ruled that police can seize visible guns from vehicles without a warrant.

The ruling overturned district and appeals court decisions that said police had overstepped their authority in searching a vehicle after a lawful traffic stop.

At issue was a 2008 case in Hobbs. Police saw a handgun in the vehicle and then searched it.

They ran a background check and found that a passenger, Gregory Ketelson, had a prior felony conviction. Officers arrested him for being in unlawful possession of a gun.

Ketelson's lawyers argued that an officer does not have authority to enter a car and seize an object absent a search warrant consent or emergency circumstances.

In overturning the lower courts, the Supreme Court said the key issue was whether a police officer could remove a visible weapon from a vehicle to keep it away from those who had just been pulled over.

The court unanimously said: "... We are mindful of the grave need for officer safety in the midst of the dangers and uncertainties that are always inherent in traffic stops. ... It was constitutionally reasonable for the officer to remove the firearm from the vehicle. Therefore, the evidence should not have been suppressed."


The Artesia NM News reports:

The court also said that its decision “does not depend on any requirement of particularized suspicion that an occupant is inclined to use the firearm improperly.”


And nationally, the Supreme Court ruled

The police do not need a warrant to enter a home if they smell burning marijuana, knock loudly, announce themselves and hear what they think is the sound of evidence being destroyed, the Supreme Court ruled on Monday in an 8-to-1 decision.

The issue as framed by the majority was a narrow one. It assumed there was good reason to think evidence was being destroyed, and asked only whether the conduct of the police had impermissibly caused the destruction.

Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., writing for the majority, said police officers do not violate the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches by kicking down a door after the occupants of an apartment react to hearing that officers are there by seeming to destroy evidence.

In dissent, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote that the majority had handed the police an important new tool.

“The court today arms the police with a way routinely to dishonor the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement in drug cases,” Justice Ginsburg wrote. “In lieu of presenting their evidence to a neutral magistrate, police officers may now knock, listen, then break the door down, never mind that they had ample time to obtain a warrant.”

The case, Kentucky v. King, No. 09-1272, arose from a mistake. After seeing a drug deal in a parking lot, police officers in Lexington, Ky., rushed into an apartment complex looking for a suspect who had sold cocaine to an informant.

But the smell of burning marijuana led them to the wrong apartment. After knocking and announcing themselves, they heard sounds from inside the apartment that they said made them fear that evidence was being destroyed. They kicked the door in and found marijuana and cocaine but not the original suspect, who was in a different apartment.


Taken together these decisions will further embolden the paramilitary gangs that operate under color of law such as the one in Pima County, Arizona, that executed Jose Guerena on a blanket warrant for an entire neighborhood.

I have written before ("“Choose this day whom you will serve.”: An Open Letter to American Law Enforcement) of the dangers of federalized law enforcement -- to the people, the Republic and the cops themselves.

In addition, the Olofson case and other similar cases have convinced many that if we no longer possess the right to a fair trial, we at least retain the right to an unfair gunfight.

I have said this many times and it bears repeating:

If the law -- the entire police establishment at all levels of government, the high priesthood of attorneys and the courts who are supposed to restrain them within the limits set by the Founders' Constitution as well as the politicians who shape the legal battlefield -- no longer protects us then it no longer protects them either.

There is no advantage in being law abiding in an essentially lawless society where the rule of law has been supplanted by the rule of man, which is nothing more than the law of the jungle.

For in the jungle, even the biggest predators can be killed without consequence. The only thing that matters then is the successful completion of the deed by the creature who refuses to be eaten without resistance.

Are these black robed fools really stupid enough to think that the immutable, eternal Law of Unintended Consequences does not apply to THEM?

I'm afraid were are going to see that theory tested in a very bloody manner, with murdered citizens, dead cops and assassinated judges littering their self-made jungle's floor.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152900
05/27/2011 03:39 AM
05/27/2011 03:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
airforce Online content
Administrator
airforce  Online Content
Administrator
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
Here is a video of the raid. About one minute. Several seconds of a siren, cops knocking on door and shouting "Police!" before forcing entry. Again, if hewas such a dangerous criminal, why did they give him that much warning before forcing entry?

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: SWAT murders Marine #152901
05/27/2011 05:16 PM
05/27/2011 05:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,864
Okanogan County Washington Sta...
S
STRATIOTES Offline
Administrator
STRATIOTES  Offline
Administrator

S
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,864
Okanogan County Washington Sta...
Crime in the name of justice is twice the crime .


PISTIS en XPICT faith in Christ
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152902
05/29/2011 06:05 AM
05/29/2011 06:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Breacher Offline
Moderator
Breacher  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
The Pima County Sheriff Department has been thoughtful enough to post names and pictures of their upper chain of command on their own website.

A little more online research. The department website mentions the Bearcat vehicles used by their SWAT unit. A little more research on the vehicles at military.com reveals an advertisement that the vehicle is a high performance wheeled APC, of which "The federal government buys dozens each year for local police departments".

A look at the video will reveal an interior and engine noise very similar to that shown in the Bearcat armored vehicle promotional videos.

Given how the federal funding grants work, the personnel and equipment must be deployed according to federal government and grant program guidelines, so that is why there is such a strong defense for the actions of this SWAT team, they were effectively acting as a contracted arm of the federal government under the federal guidelines of a federally funded program. Now I wonder which one. Now under those guidelines and programs, there may not even be a federal officer present, as what usually happens is they are handled by local "authorities" as part of the contract, and then the cases referred to the US Attorney's office when appropriate. So in a case like this, had they found illegal weapons, cash and drugs. The state would prosecute and get further funding depending on the amount of dope, the state may or may not prosecute on the weapons (they generally prosecute on the stolen guns, feds prosecute on NFA items and felon in posession of weapon charges), and the cash proceeds split up on forfeiture according to the rules of the "contract". It is "shoot and loot" in its truest form.

The issue though, when acting under federal contract and on a federally funded program, the locals who might normally not have immunity under federal law do have immunity under federal law, and are unlikely to be prosecuted. It is the old mafia-like understanding that US attorneys are priveleaged to grant and must respect among each other, "if youse workin for us, youse workin for us and immune from prosecution because we be loyal to our own". Not just the nebulous "thin blue line" backing each other up, but buried in the legal language of the funding contracts and task force operating agreements. The perpetrators will never see federal civil rights prosecution, and if some upstart new US attorney presses the charges (unlikely) they will never get past a federal magistrate, who is 90% of the time, a former federal prosecutor who got "promoted" to the next step in being a judge.

If the details so far are true, that this was a "neighborhood raid" directed by an "informant" whose identity is of course "protected", then what it amounted to was a paramilitary attack on unsuspecting American Citizens in their own homes. The victims of this raid were practically picked at random in order to make a "show of force" in the neighborhood, I dare say, in the style of an "army of occupation". I hate to bring up such an obviously leftist terminology on that, but has anyone noticed the deafening silence over at the primarily Democrat controlled discussion sites?


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152903
05/29/2011 10:16 AM
05/29/2011 10:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,015
washington
mak9030mag Offline
Senior Member
mak9030mag  Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,015
washington
So basicaly we have a police state,that operates with immunity from prosicution?
Funded by tax dollars?
Now this is were I get confused. Don't they swear an oath to serve and protect the citizens from criminals?


Mak
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152904
05/30/2011 05:11 PM
05/30/2011 05:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Breacher Offline
Moderator
Breacher  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
The police union lawyer for that area has done some video interviews. He claims that Guerna had been part of a dope hijacker crew and the warrants were after evidence that Guerna had been impersonating a law enforcement officer during false raids on dope world people.

OK, so part of this reveals where the "information" was coming from, it was coming from dopers who reported it to the police, allegedly.

Now on another note, you watch the video of the lawyer talking and if you have had any lessons on spotting both the tics associated with dope users, and liars, the lawyer exhibits both. One is the touching of the face shortly before and sometimes after telling a lie. The other thing, the part of his face he touches appears to be a habitual squeezing of a part of the sinus cavity where cocaine residue tends to collect. Frequent powder cocaine users are aware of the spot in the sinus cavity where the drug tends to collect, and will have various little actions they take to get a "hit of the reserve" throughout the day when they are not "high". In person, it almost like a sniffle, or as in the case with the lawyer, he presses a part of the sinus then quickly inhales.

It is basically a confidence building thing, as the drug is in common use among lawyers in order to build self confidence, and one of the reasons it is particularly popular among the classes of people whose professions "require" them to lie with a high degree of self confidence.

I personally think some of this might go hand in hand with who Guerna's crew may have stepped on if they had been playing vigilante. They stepped on someone well connected and that well connected party called in the hit which was carried out by the SWAT unit. Of course, you are talking overconfident dope users calling the shots on the raid anyway, so who knows, maybe it just made them feel good to put a hit out on some square who would not play ball for them.

I am also going to have to throw a good guess out there that although the police involved are publicly showing a united front on this, the release of the video from someone's helmet cam showing facts which are obviously inconsistent with statements and reports is also showing that someone somewhere has decided to throw a little more truth out there and is willing to led the dice fall where they fall.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152905
05/31/2011 02:56 AM
05/31/2011 02:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,120
Twilight Zone
T
Total Resistance Offline
Senior Member
Total Resistance  Offline
Senior Member
T
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,120
Twilight Zone
I hate to be a dick especially since this guy was pretty much murdered in front of his family but...

Nothing is going to change.

They will kill more kids, women and innocent men tomorrow. Next week. Next year and as long as they can. Who will stop them?

They will use the full force of the federal government to crush one lone person and lie, deny, falsify and pervert justice. IF they are caught WE will pay for damages from the JBT while they get a promotion and paid vacations.

IF someone even hints at the idea of resisting like Hutaree was accused of doing then the dumb asses who make up this country will flock to the side of the JBT. "You don't kill cops".

Kahl. Weaver. Koresh. Woodring. Cooper. 1000s of others.



Rule #1 - You do not publically bad mouth a fellow patriot.

"Being innocent is simply not enough for the government," Denise Simon
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152906
05/31/2011 04:32 AM
05/31/2011 04:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Online content OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Online Content OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Just read a report that claims the victims hands were shot up...yet there isn't a scratch on the AR15. His wife has also stated that the AR was a throw down placed beside the body after the smoke cleared.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152907
05/31/2011 06:33 AM
05/31/2011 06:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,469
Philistine Occupied CA
I
Imagrunt Offline
Moderator
Imagrunt  Offline
Moderator

I
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,469
Philistine Occupied CA
Make no mistake that local LEOs are the agents of a standing, federal, army: the tentacles of tyranny.

I pray that God will bring the truth to light, and that any criminals hiding behind the authority of an LEO badge, will be brought to justice.


I would gladly lay aside the use of arms and settle matters by negotiation, but unless the whole will, the matter ends, and I take up my battle rifle, and thank God that He has put it within my grasp.

Audit Fort Knox!
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152908
05/31/2011 08:46 AM
05/31/2011 08:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 951
TX - DAL
P
Pericles Offline
Member
Pericles  Offline
Member
P
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 951
TX - DAL
If that video was typical of a SWAT team in action, there are a lot of SWAT guys lucky to be alive.


"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson

www.dallascitytroop.org
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152909
05/31/2011 08:50 AM
05/31/2011 08:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Breacher Offline
Moderator
Breacher  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Given the information that is coming out at this point, I strongly suspect that the "Marine Corps Mafia" is at work within the related agencies and some folks are being "convinced" to leak more information.

Yeah, if the AR has no bullet damage and the guy was shot to hell with over 60 hits, then it was definitely a throwdown weapon. I never thought of it before, but with all of the weapons bristling from SWAT guys running into a house, it is easy to include an "extra" AR with the numbers rubbed off so that it can be "found" near the perp, but undamaged by gunfire, that is something the wife would probably remember, as when an AR/M16 gets hit by high velocity bullets, there is likely to be extensive visible damage. I have only seen one rifle (an SKS) that took multiple hits which were not immediately recognizable.

In the instance of the battle damaged SKS, it came from the "discount bin" $79 pile of Yugoslav SKS rifles from Century, had blood stains on it, the buttstock cleaning gear compartment full of cigarette butts that still smelled like an ashtray, and three holes where the guy who had been holding the rifle at roughly port arms got stitched up center mass with another 7.62 weapon. Any AR type rifle taking such hits would be irreparably shattered.

No way that many professionals aiming center mass could 'miss" the rifle with at least a few bullets. All pros are trained to fire center mass, then maybe finish with headshots. In some cases, pros get trained to double tap the pelvic area, then go center mass then head. In any event, the rifle would have been hit at some point.

I strongly suspect that some of the cops know this turned out to be a drug organization directed hit carried out by dupes in the department. Could be the warrants get sealed because the informant could be identified through them and that informant is being protected or 'disappeared".

The thing is, in cases where there is an actual victim and an actual guilty party, why conceal the identity of the complainant? A real perp knows who his real victim would be, so what would give with the secrecy?

Real perps always have a pretty good idea who their victims were, but in a fake "anonymous complaint" of a serious violent crime (especially home invasion), then yeah, its probably (99.9% chance) fake.

I think the way this is going to have to work is the department gives up the guilty parties or anyone even thinking of wearing the same uniform of them better watch the fuck out. Payback is a bitch. You don't need to be an oathkeeper to see the injustice in some SWAT unit going dirty and doing dirty work for local turd dope informants. Even the most vile JBTs understand that concept, selling the badge to do hits for dopers is a death penalty offense and the pricks in Pima County with their coke sniffing union lawyer are going to be learning that the very very hard way.

Sit and watch the movie Scarface in the presence of any LE types, Oathekeepers or JBTs and in that part where Tony Montana gut shoots the SWAT commander after the SWAT commander offers the services of his "death squad", you will see looks of approval. Yeah, grease that motherfucker. Its something just about everyone openly agrees on, although privately, most of the doper organizations hope to develop the sorts of relationships which put legalized death squads at their disposal (as is often the case in Mexico).


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152910
05/31/2011 09:50 AM
05/31/2011 09:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,535
somewhere-where am I?
J
J. Croft Offline
Member
J. Croft  Offline
Member
J
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,535
somewhere-where am I?
Quote
Just read a report that claims the victims hands were shot up...yet there isn't a scratch on the AR15. His wife has also stated that the AR was a throw down placed beside the body after the smoke cleared
Link to that? Because that completely changes the dynamic of this into a straight up hit.

Looks like the Guernea shooting is becoming a rallying cry. Hope the rally lasts.


Be your own leader

freedomguide.blogspot.com
freedomguide.wordpress.com
youtube.com/user/freedomguide
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152911
05/31/2011 10:13 AM
05/31/2011 10:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Online content OP
Senior Member
ConSigCor  Online Content OP
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
Group protests SWAT death of Tucson Marine

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Group-protests-SWAT-death-of-Tucson-Marine-122846839.html


Dupnik's Death Squad. Read this excellent tactical analysis of the Guerena murder.

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/316833.php


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152912
05/31/2011 12:48 PM
05/31/2011 12:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,246
North Carolina
S
safetalker Offline
Member
safetalker  Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,246
North Carolina
I found this on another board and I found it very educational.
----------------------------------------------------
May 28, 2011
The Guerena Shooting: Initial Analysis

As regular readers know, I’m a USAF veteran (I was a security police officer in SAC during the cold war) and have extensive civilian police service, including SWAT duty. I have been writing on the Erik Scott case In Las Vegas since August of 2010. Those extensive posts are available in our Erik Scott archive.

The Jose Guerena shooting, which took place on May 5, is similar in many ways. My co-blogger, Bob’s May 25 story on the Pajamas Media site (here) has stimulated considerable interest in the story on the Net. What I’ve yet to see is concise information that would allow people who don’t have police and/or tactical team backgrounds to better understand what appears to have happened in this case. To that end, I’ll explain why SWAT teams exist, what purpose(s) they should serve, how they should work, and proper police procedure in any case where the police have shot a citizen.

I’ll also analyze the brief—less then 60 seconds—police video of the actual shooting (it may be found here). Please keep in mind that I am working only from media and Internet accounts, including the aforementioned video and other documents released by the Pima County Sheriff’s Office, the law enforcement entity involved. As such, I don’t have all of the facts, and as Donald Rumsfeld might say, there are unknown unknowns. In other words, I don’t know enough about this specific incident to know precisely what I don’t know.

That said, I hope to produce at least a reasonable foundation for understanding what seems to have happened on May 5. Go here and here for local media accounts of the incident.

UPDATE 052911, 1329 CT: Go here for an updated news story reporting the Guerena, according to the medical examiner, was actually hit 22 times, not 60 as was originally reported by the doctors who examined him. See the "Analysis" section below for additional commentary.

SWAT TEAMS: RATIONALE AND REALITY

Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) teams have, over the last thirty years, become relatively common in American law enforcement. Their primary reason for being is to provide a highly trained, enhanced capability beyond the training and equipment available to patrol officers. Patrol officers are most commonly armed only with their handguns and perhaps .12 gauge shotguns in their patrol vehicles, though some police agencies have begun to also equip them with carbines, such as variants of the AR-15 family. This is rational in that the effective range of shotguns with reasonable accuracy is essentially the same as handguns. Many people think shotguns are extraordinarily powerful, long range weapons, but in fact, their enhanced effectiveness—compared with handgun ammunition—depends entirely on keeping the shot column together, which again, limits them to essentially the same practical range as handguns. Patrol officers commonly wear bullet-resistant vests (there is no such thing as a bullet-proof vest) sufficient only to stop common handgun rounds. Tactical vests such as those worn by SWAT operators are simply too large, bulky and heavy for daily patrol wear.

The classic scenario for a SWAT callout is a barricaded hostage taker, a situation that commonly ends with a negotiator talking the suspect or suspects out without bloodshed, or more rarely, with a single shot from a sniper’s rifle. More rare still is an assault by SWAT operators. This is rare because no matter how much SWAT types love to do this sort of thing, it is horrendously dangerous to everyone involved. SWAT teams are also commonly employed for the service of no-knock warrants, where absolute surprise, speed, and overwhelming action are a necessity to minimize danger and prevent the destruction of evidence.

SWAT teams are very expensive to equip, train and to maintain. Generally speaking, only major cities have dedicated SWAT teams whose focus is constant training. Such officers generally have no other primary duties and work together on a daily basis learning and honing their craft.

It’s particularly important to understand that one of the fundamental principles of professional SWAT philosophy and training is that each operator be superior to his police peers in physical prowess, mental and emotional stability, quick thinking skills, situational awareness, shooting skills, and every other skill specific to SWAT operations. What this essentially means is that SWAT operators are expected to be faster, smarter and more capable than the average cop. Where most officers would shoot, and shoot a great many rounds, they are expected to be able to take the extra few seconds—or fractions of a second—necessary to more fully and accurately analyze any situation before shooting. And when they shoot, they are expected to do it with far greater restraint and accuracy than most officers.

Note the Navy SEAL who took out Osama Bin Laden with two rounds and two rounds only, one to the chest, one to the head. This is a classic example of cool, perfect shot placement under stress, and is precisely the sort of thing SWAT troops are supposed to be able to do. After all, if they are no better at this sort of thing than the average street cop, all that has been done is to give average street cops more destructive, longer ranged weapons.

In recognition of the generally greater danger SWAT personnel face when properly employed, most teams are armed with fully automatic weapons, such as the ubiquitous H&K MP5 in 9mm. Many also use AR-15 variant carbines in .223 with 16” or shorter barrels. So arming SWAT teams is reasonable and necessary—again, if they are properly employed—but it is also a contributing factor to many potential problems.

Many people assume that the police are generally expert shots. Not so. Many officers aren’t particularly fond of guns, and a surprising number own no firearms other than their issued handgun. Because ammunition is expensive, particularly when one is equipping an entire police force, most Law Enforcement Organizations (LEOs) tend to hold qualifications only once a year. The courses of fire for such qualifications tend to be relatively easy, require less than 50 rounds, and qualifying scores are generous. Officers are often allowed to shoot as many times as necessary to achieve a barely passing score. Most LEOs do not provide practice ammunition for their officers, so a great many officers only practice with their handguns consists of their annual qualification shoot. They may, or may not, clean their weapons thereafter. A great many civilians are far more proficient than most police officers simply because they are more interested in firearms and shooting, and are willing to take the time to practice.

During my police days, my most effective training was that I undertook on my own time and money, taking courses such as those offered by Chuck Taylor, among others, where I learned proper submachine gun handling and tactical employment. I am, in fact, certified by Taylor’s American Small Arms Academy to teach, among other things, the submachine gun. I also hold NRA training certification. No such training was available though my LEO which simply could not afford it, particularly for an entire SWAT team.

It is at least in part in recognition of this reality that SWAT teams try to obtain advanced training, and sufficient time and money to practice—a great deal--with their weapons. Exposed only to cinematic machine gun handling, many people have formed a very wrong idea of the proper employment of submachine guns, which consists primarily of spraying magazines of ammunition with a seemingly endless number of rounds from the hip, ventilating the landscape as far as the eye can see. In reality, such weapons should virtually always be employed only from the shoulder, sights must be used, and only two to three round bursts employed. With proper training, this is much faster and far more accurate. In SWAT missions, putting the minimum number of rounds necessary precisely on target at precisely the right moment with no margin for error is the expected level of performance. In fact, many real pros consider any mission where they had to fire a single round a failure. They understand that this will certainly not always be possible, but it is their goal.

Most LEOs cannot afford a full-time, dedicated SWAT team. There is simply not sufficient call for it, and it is far too expensive. They deal with this by appointing various officers from various bureaus to a team, equipping them as they can afford, and indulging in what training they can afford. This is a significant limitation because when the team trains, all of those officers are not doing their usual duties, which often requires calling in off-duty officers to work overtime shifts to cover for missing SWAT troops. Many agencies try to minimize this significant problem by forming joint teams comprised of officers from two or more local agencies. While this helps somewhat with costs, it produces unique problems in terms of arguments over authority, leadership, cost sharing, and a variety of other issues.

The paramilitary structure of LEOs can also interfere with proper staffing of a SWAT team. Ideally, because of the very nature of such teams and the situations for which they should be employed, the most qualified people, regardless of their daily rank or position, should be placed in each and every team position, from leadership positions, to snipers. Unfortunately, rank has its privileges, and people with rank are often placed in leadership positions commensurate with their rank in their LEO while far more capable people are passed over entirely or relegated to entry or perimeter team duties. I know of one team that appointed as its primary sniper—they’re most commonly called “marksmen” or something similarly non-threatening sounding—a detective who had never before fired a rifle, and whose entry level skill was far less than that of many available officers. It is this odd internal dynamic that might see a former special forces troop expert in small unit tactics, relegated to the most distant position on a perimeter or doing coffee and sandwich runs for the command post. Less competent and experienced "leaders" tend not to want far more experienced and capable underlings too close lest they look bad by comparison.

Beyond the enormous expense of time and salary for training a team is the cost of equipment. To equip a single operator with body armor, handgun, submachine gun, helmet, eyewear, radio and proper headset, Nomex protective gear, uniform, boots, and the various other necessary items can easily run to $5000.00 and more. In LEOS where shift supervisors are constantly being brow-beaten over an extra hour or two of necessary and justifiable overtime—virtually every LEO in America--such costs might as well be $500,000.00.

SWAT teams should generally be used only for high-risk situations requiring specific skills and equipment not available to a patrol force. However, many agencies have, for many years, used them for serving high-risk warrants, including arrest warrants for violent felons, and general search warrants in drug cases. While SWAT guys love to don their gear and practice their craft in the real world, this tends to develop a mindset within an agency that makes use of SWAT teams routine rather than rare. This can lead to complacency, which any competent cop can explain is potentially deadly. Particularly in drug cases, there is a heightened risk of bad information, which can lead to teams assaulting the wrong homes and even killing the wrong people. Police lore is full of such true stories, which are taught as cautionary tales in competent SWAT training.

Remember this: Your local SWAT team responding to a hostage situation in a bank where your wife works as a teller may be a highly trained, unified, competent group of operators expert in the use of their first-rate equipment and professional tactics. More likely, they’re a group of well-meaning, undertrained and underequipped cops with uninformed and inexperienced leadership. Their knowledge and skill levels will likely vary widely, and in fact, some may be less capable than many street cops. Any combination is possible, but the operator coming through the bank door with an MP5 may be expert in its use, or he may have only fired 50 rounds through the weapon a year ago at the last qualification, and have no real idea where its actual point of aim is today.

ORGANIZATION AND TACTICS:

I will not go into great detail here on specific SWAT tactics, as most importantly, the bad guys just don’t need to know. But secondarily, such information is available to those with a need to know, and in far greater detail that it is possible for me to provide in this single article.

Generally, SWAT teams are divided into command, assault, sniper and perimeter elements. The command element commonly includes the leader(s) of the team who will be responsible for making tactical plans and giving tactical orders. The sniper element will normally consist of a sniper and spotter, hopefully trained to function as two bodies sharing the same mind. Many teams can afford only one such team (a competent rifle can easily cost $3000.00 alone). If one of the members of the team is sick or unreachable when a call-out occurs, someone less trained and experienced will have to fill in—or not. The perimeter team’s job is to establish a safe perimeter around the target building or area and keep unwanted people out and the bad guys in.

It is the entry team that is of greatest interest to us here. Such elements commonly consist of an operator leading with a heavy, bullet-resistant shield or “bunker” as it is sometimes called. One or two operators are designated to break open doors using specialized tools. As soon as a door is opened, a “stack” immediately enters. A “stack” commonly consists of several men—usually three or four in addition to the man with the shield—following single file on each other’s heels through the doorway. In such stacks, operators commonly place one hand on the shoulder of the man in front of them, allowing them to stay together and to communicate readiness with a simple squeeze passed up the stack as they begin.

All police officers are taught to avoid the “fatal funnel,” or placing them selves in a narrow, tight area where it is easy for bad guys to shoot them. Being silhouetted in a doorframe is a classic example, as is being stacked up in a narrow hallway. If one can’t avoid such areas, it is imperative to minimize the time spent in them.

Each member of the “stack” has a specific area of responsibility, a portion of the space(s) they will enter they are responsible for checking out visually. Only they are authorized to engage—shoot—potential threats in their area of responsibility. This is essential because there can easily be more than one threat in more than one place. If an entire stack focuses or fires on the first perceived threat, the entire team may be wiped out by an unseen shooter. In addition, shooting in enclosed spaces is extraordinarily loud. Officers must be careful not to inadvertently deafen each other, or blind each other with the muzzle flash of a weapon fired too close to the eyes of a fellow officer. This kind of discipline requires constant training and conditioning and cool thinking under fire.

A significant part of training for entry teams and SWAT teams in general involves “deconfliction,” or muzzle awareness. Any police officer can attest to the fact that it is surprisingly easy to unintentionally point weapons at other people. In high stress situations where many people simultaneously occupy the same small place, particularly when sound and rapid movement in an unfamiliar area are also present, it is ridiculously easy to make deadly mistakes. By assigning very specific areas of responsibility, areas from which an operator’s muzzle should not stray, the possibility of accidently shooting another operator, rather than a bad guy, is minimized. It is minimized, but always a real danger, and such shootings are far more common than the police are comfortable admitting. Officers are also taught to keep their trigger fingers “in register,” or outside the trigger guard of their weapons, off the trigger, in direct contact with the frame or receiver of their weapons, until milliseconds before it is necessary to fire. This too minimizes the risk of accidental or unintentional discharges (ADs).

Generally, the stack’s duties consist of “clearing” every potential danger area in a structure. They do this by going room to room, never turning their backs—so to speak—on un-cleared rooms or areas, securing—by whatever means necessary—any hostiles. Only when the entire structure has been cleared, do other officers enter and conduct a search. Even so, no one relaxes prematurely. Properly done, a normally sized, three bedroom home may be properly cleared within a few minutes.

In some particularly dangerous cases, the stack will be preceded by one or more “flashbangs.” These are specialized hand grenades, which do not produce fragmentation, but a brilliant flash of light and very loud report, both effects being magnified by close quarters. The advantage of these devices is that they can render bad guys senseless long enough for the police to subdue them with little risk to themselves. The disadvantages are that if they detonate too close to a bad guy, they can seriously injure or kill them, and they can start fires.

Once a dynamic entry has begun, it must not hesitate. The stack must enter with speed and determination to surprise and overwhelm any resistance. Particularly in serving drug search warrants, one immediate goal is to prevent the destruction of evidence, which might be easily flushed down a toilet, for example. To that end, retreat or hesitation is not an option.

If anyone is injured, SWAT operators, as police officers, have the same duty to see that they receive aid as quickly as safety will allow.

THE LAW: SEARCH AND SEIZURE AND SHOOTING

Every aspect of search and seizure is governed by the Fourth Amendment, which states:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Despite the claims of some of the self-appointed “elite” that the language of the late 1700s cannot be read or understood by the modern liberal mind, this, like the rest of the Bill of Rights, is quite clear. If the police want to search someone’s home, they need a warrant. To get a warrant, they must have probable cause, which is defined as facts or circumstances that would lead a reasonable police officer to conclude that a crime has been committed and that a specific person has committed it. A vague, general suspicion or inference is not probable cause. Saying for instance that Joe is a drug dealer and that Steve has been seen in Joe’s company does not implicate Steve in the drug trade absent specific evidence of his involvement.

To obtain a warrant, an officer must write a complete affidavit, which, as the Fourth Amendment so clearly states, describes his probable cause, and which particularly describes the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. “Particularly” is an important word. Not only is it necessary to, for example, provide the address of a home to be searched, the home itself should be carefully described. If, for example, the SWAT team shows up at 1506 Walnut Street to search a two story red brick home with a detached single car garage and finds instead a single story ranch, painted tan with brown trim and no garage, they know something is very wrong. This is not uncommon, particularly with drug cases. Insufficient probable cause or vague descriptions will usually cause a judge, who must review each affidavit and approve each warrant, to refuse to issue a warrant.

There are exceptions to the warrant requirement, such as hot pursuit or exigent circumstances. In this case, the police apparently had a warrant. In servicing warrants, officers must commonly knock, clearly identify themselves and their purpose, and allow sufficient time for the occupants to respond. No-knock warrants may be granted, but only upon a convincing showing of specific danger and need.

Keep in mind that if anyone lies to obtain a warrant, everything that occurs as a result of the service of the faulty warrant may be tainted and many not be used in court. However, generally speaking, officers who are acting on good faith, who have no reason to believe that the warrant under which they are acting is faulty, are generally not legally liable. This, of course, does not excuse criminal behavior, negligence or incompetence.

The use of confidential informants in drug cases is always problematic. Such people are virtually always criminals and drug users and are inherently unreliable. Even so, they are often the only way to successfully penetrate drug operations. Professional, capable judges are always suspicious of such people and commonly require a higher standard of proof than just the word of a CI.

Search warrants must generally be served during the daytime, and within a specific, brief window of time, usually within 24 hours of their issuance. A judge may grant exceptions, but they must be spelled out in the warrant. After the warrant has been served, officers are required to promptly file a “return,” which is an after action report that specifically describes everything found and seized as a result of the warrant. Lying on any portion of the related paperwork is perjury, a serious criminal offense, usually a felony.

Prior to searching any home, particularly if a forced entry is likely, professional teams will have conducted sufficient surveillance, and will have produced detailed diagrams of the interior of the home, which will include likely locations of any firearms or defensive preparations, and hiding/storage places of any drugs. They will want to know how many people are usually in the home, their identities and everything about them. Even if the police cannot get inside a home, a great deal may be learned from merely observing the home and the manner in which it is constructed. Remember that professional teams try to avoid forced or “dynamic” entries because of the great danger involved. Professionals seek, prior to searching, to isolate and capture the primary suspect outside the home whenever possible. This is why careful surveillance and accurate information is so important; it can greatly lessen the risk to everyone involved.

WHEN THE POLICE MAY SHOOT:

Police officers may use deadly force when there is an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death to them selves or another. It cannot be a possible threat that might manifest itself within the next few minutes. It must be obvious, real and about to happen at the instant that deadly force was used. If these conditions exist, an officer may use whatever force is necessary to stop the bad guy from doing whatever gave the officer justification to use deadly force in the first place. If the bad guy dies as a result of the application of that force, bad for him, but the police always shoot to stop, never to kill. If they shoot effectively—and SWAT teams are supposed to always shoot effectively and with the minimum expenditure of ammunition—the bad guy will usually be killed, but he will surely be stopped.

If a single 9mm round from an officer’s handgun stops the bad guy, that’s a good thing. If five rounds from a shotgun are reasonably required, that’s perfectly permissible under the law. However, the second a bad guy ceases to be a threat, all shooting must stop. The law--to say nothing of professionalism, common sense and decency--does not allow gratuitous magazine emptying or “me too” shooting when the danger has clearly passed.

In such circumstances, some will claim that when confronted by someone holding a gun, or even when the police suspect someone is armed—as in the Erik Scott case—the police may blithely fire away. This is dangerous nonsense. Remember that SWAT operators should be better trained and more experienced than their patrol brethren. They are expected to be able to wait those few fractions of a second longer before shooting necessary to be certain that shooting is absolutely required. In a nation with a Second Amendment, and where citizens may carry concealed handguns in most states, police officers simply cannot shoot anyone seen holding a weapon. In fact, officers deal with people who are openly carrying weapons, or who are carrying concealed weapons, every day without injuring anyone. Was this not true, our streets would be littered with the bodies of law-abiding people shot by panicky cops who had no legal reason to be certain of a threat before emptying their weapons.

Remember, again, that a SWAT team making a dynamic entry understands that citizens within might very well mistake them for home invaders and might meet them with firearms in their hands. Merely holding a firearm, or even pointing it in their general direction, does not automatically constitute an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death, particularly for officers wearing highly effective body armor behind a bullet resistant shield. Remember too that SWAT operators are supposed to be more capable of correctly making just this kind of split second judgment.

Professional teams are extensively debriefed after each mission. Each and every discrepancy is minutely analyzed and discussed. An officer firing when he might have avoided it, or firing more than reasonably required, is in trouble. An officer crossing the bodies of his teammates with the muzzle of his weapon because he was distracted and didn’t cover his area of responsibility is likewise in trouble. SWAT teams work for perfection, but understand that human beings seldom reach it.

THE GUERENA RAID:

With all of these factors in mind, let’s analyze the 54 second video clip released by the Pima County SO. The video seems to have been shot from a helmet-mounted camera worn by an officer in the back seat of a vehicle parked in the driveway of the Guerena home. The vehicle is apparently parked behind another vehicle, which is directly in front of the garage. Throughout the video, music, apparently from the radio in the police vehicle, can be heard. As the officers are preparing to enter, I can hear them speaking, but for whatever reason, most of what they say is unintelligible. No doubt, others using other equipment might be able to more clearly hear what is being said.

Before I begin a second by second breakdown of the action, some general observations. Not counting the two officers who are apparently in the vehicle—one in the driver’s seat clearly in the view of the camera as the video begins and the officer recording the incident—there are as many as seven officers clustered around the door and front yard of the home. And I do mean clustered, as in having no apparently coherent organization. In fact, throughout the tape, they appear to be more or less constantly shifting their positions, apparently aimlessly.

The viewpoint of the camera is apparently through the left side, back window of the police vehicle and is slightly to the right of the plane of the front door of the home. Immediately to the front of the police vehicle is a garage, to the left of that, the front door, and to the left of that, what appears to be a living room picture window. It is bright daylight. The camera appears to be approximately 25 feet from the front door of the home.

The officers making a sort of entry can generally be seen only from the back and the camera is somewhat shaky throughout the clip. Brief glimpses of the faces of a few of the officers are possible, but it is very difficult, perhaps impossible to identify them. Keep in mind that the time frames are based on the time stamp running with the video, so I may be off by fractions of a second here and there.

THE VIDEO:

Seconds 0-8: The clip begins with the camera focusing on an officer in tactical gear and helmet in the front seat of a police vehicle. The field of view shifts around, finally settling, shakily, on a consistent view of the front of the home and of the approximately seven officers in tactical uniforms and gear in the front yard, driveway and near the front door. An officer with a bullet-resistant shield is consistently standing, more or less, in front of the door.

5: The police vehicle siren begins.

7: It stops for about a half second and begins again.

14: The siren ceases. The siren sounds very much like a car alarm, and is not very loud, even within the vehicle that is apparently broadcasting the sound. It has sounded, with a brief interruption, for only about nine seconds.

15: An officer can be heard saying “do it.”

17: An officer says “bang, bang, bang,” apparently over the radio. It’s not clear what he means or why he is saying this.

26: An officer holding a large, purpose-built pry bar, approaches the door and knocks lightly several times. He immediately retreats backward toward the garage.

33: An officer advances and apparently kicks the door open (officers standing in the way obscure the action, but the pry bar is apparently not used). That officer withdraws to the area of the garage. Officers immediately start moving around, but in no organized fashion. There is no stack, and no one seems to have any idea what to do. There is no organized attempt at a dynamic entry.

38: At this point, it appears that another officer actually enters the home to the right of the officer holding the shield. It is difficult to be sure, because various officers shift directly in and out of the view of the camera, which does not change. The shield-holding officer stands in the doorway, but does not enter. Another officer is standing to the left of the officer with the shield. He too does not enter, but only points his weapon into the home through the doorway. Again, officers are apparently speaking, but I cannot make out what they are saying.

40: Shots start, and are apparently a combination of semi-automatic and automatic fire. No muzzle flashes are visible and it is impossible to tell exactly who is firing. In addition, their specific weapons are not visible. Two officers immediately retreat out of the frame of the camera, to the right, in front of the garage. This leaves the officer who is apparently inside the house, the officer holding the shield who is blocking the doorway and the officer leaning over his left shoulder, at the left side of the doorway, leaning in, apparently firing. It appears that the officer with the shield is armed only with a handgun (normal procedure when carrying a shield) while the others are armed with long guns of various types. I can make out the distinct reports of at least three weapons.

Almost immediately, an officer in the background, who was closer to the camera, has slung his long gun behind his back. He draws his handgun, and runs to the front door.

44: Positioning himself between the officer holding the shield and the officer on the left, he sticks his handgun between them, apparently one-handed, and begins to fire. By this time, the officer holding the shield can be clearly seen to be on his back on the ground in the doorway. His shield is now oriented so that it is between him and the camera.

48: The shooting stops. The officers seem disoriented, not knowing what to do. There are no apparent attempts to reload. Only the three who remained outside are visible. The officer who apparently entered, ahead of the shield man, is not visible.

50: One final round is fired. It’s not possible to tell who fires it or why. The camera quickly shifts downward, away from the scene of the shooting, and the video stops at 54 seconds.

OBSERVATIONS:

(1) There appears to be no organization at all. The officers are not organized into an entry stack, they are not apparently taking pre-determined positions, and they mill about, apparently not knowing what should happen next.

(2) They are apparently announcing themselves, but their words are muted. It would be entirely possible for people in the home to be unable to hear what they are saying.

(3) The activation of the siren appears to be uncoordinated with the action at the door. I cannot hear any radio traffic asking for such activation, and there are no visual signals requesting it. If the residents heard it at all, it could be easily mistaken for a car alarm.

(4) Music, apparently playing in the police vehicle, is a very disturbing sign. It indicates a lack of training and concentration that would be potentially deadly in any SWAT operation. This is an amazing bit of foolishness. It is hard enough to clearly hear radio traffic and voices in fast moving, stressful situations. Adding extraneous music is incredibly stupid and dangerous.

(5) Whoever knocks does so very quietly and makes only 4-5 knocks. It’s not possible to tell whether the home has a doorbell, but from the knock to the kick that opens the door only about seven seconds elapse, not nearly enough time for any resident to answer the knock even if they did hear it.

The evidence currently suggests that Vanessa Guerena, Jose’s wife, spotted armed men roaming about the yard. Telling Jose, he directed her to hide in a closet with their four year old child, and taking up an AR-15, crouched in a hallway to intercept what he likely thought were armed home invaders. The exact time frame of these actions is currently unknown.

That the officers take the time to knock and sound a siren indicates that they did not consider time to be of the essence. They were apparently not concerned that the residents of the home would be armed and waiting for them, or that they might be trying to dispose of evidence. Had this been the case, they would have obtained a no-knock warrant and entered without warning, maximizing shock and surprise and minimizing the danger. As it is, their actions indicate a poor state of planning and readiness, haphazardly combining elements of a low-risk warrant service-albeit with a fully armed SWAT team, which makes no sense—and a high-risk, no-knock entry, for which a SWAT team makes sense.

(6) When the door is kicked open, the officer who apparently opened the door has to hastily retreat through several other officers, indicating very poor planning. In proper dynamic entries, the breaching officer or officers are positioned so that they can immediately swing out of the way without obstructing others, allowing the stack to immediately enter. Here, no one moves toward the door in a coordinated manner.

(7) After the door swings open, it takes about five seconds for an officer to apparently enter the door on the right, the shield man to stand in the doorway, blocking it, and the officer on the left of the door to lean in and point his weapon into the home.

(8) An important consideration here is that the officers were standing in bright sunlight. Upon entering, or looking into the home, unless they took appropriate steps to compensate, their vision would be compromised. Anyone who has been outside in bright sunlight and stepped into a building without lights on understands what I’m talking about. It is likely that when they saw Guerena, and the specifics of that encounter are far from clear, they saw only a dark and/or indistinct outline. It is impossible to see if the officers are wearing goggles or dark glasses, which would allow them to see clearly in a darkened dwelling upon entry, but there is no apparent sign of them adjusting such eyewear off their eyes as they stand in the doorway. It is entirely possible that those who fired had no real idea why they were firing because they could not clearly see the “threat” that was drawing their fire.

(9) The shooting begins with 4-5 evenly spaced shots, apparently on semi-automatic. Those shots are quickly joined by a wild melee of fire which lasts about eight seconds, followed by a two second silence and one final shot. According to media accounts, the SWAT team “leader” said that the officers involved exhausted their ammunition. That’s not at all hard to believe, and it is possible that more than 71 rounds were fired.

What is absolutely clear is that the firing was not professionally done. Professional operators fire in two-three rounds bursts, take the milliseconds necessary to asses whether their fire has had the desired effect, and fire again, in a carefully controlled, highly accurate manner, only if necessary. What I heard on the video was panicky fire. Two officers heard the first firing, and they simply opened up and held their triggers down, or kept pulling the trigger, until their bolts locked back, their magazines having been emptied. No doubt their trigger fingers were still jerking even then.

Considering the nature and volume of fire, it is amazing that Guerena was hit some 60 times. It is also amazing that the entire neighborhood was not ventilated. Apparently at least one round did strike a neighboring home—which indicates that the police recognized the reckless manner of their fusillade sufficiently to check out the surrounding area—which caused to police to break into that home to ensure they hadn’t killed anyone. Apparently, they were lucky and did not. It is equally amazing that they did not shoot each other.

UPDATE 052911, 1329 CT: According to a more recent local news story, the medical examiner has reported that Guerena was hit not 60 times as originally suggested by doctors, but only 22 times. This is far more in line with common results of police shootings where most rounds fired do not hit their intended targets. This is also far more in line with what would be expected of the wild and uncontrolled fire of the SWAT shooters in this particular incident, particularly those firing on full-auto. Highly skilled operators can control fully automatic fire in a submachine gun or light carbine such as the AR-15, untrained operators cannot. In any case, carefully controlled and aimed short bursts are always preferred. Police officers are directly responsible for each and every bullet they fire. In this case, nearly 70% of the rounds fired by the police missed. This might make more likely my contention that the officer's vision was compromised and that at least some of them had no real idea of their target or why they were shooting at it, other than the knowledge that one of their number was initially shooting at something. As shocking as all of this might be, the hit rate is about average for police shootings. SWAT teams should do much better. Knowing this, it is even more incredible that the officers did not shoot Mrs. Guerena, her child, themselves, or anyone else in the neighborhood.

(10) That the shield man never actually entered the home, but merely stood in the doorway, perfectly silhouetted, in the very center of a textbook fatal funnel speaks very poorly of the team’s training and experience. It’s not clear how he ended up on his back in that doorway. Did he trip and fall? Perhaps he was knocked off his feet by his teammates, eager to get in on the action. It is also possible that the fourth officer who hastily ran up to the door and thrust his handgun between two of his fellow officers may have fired it so closely to the head and face of the shield man that he was momentarily stunned--or injured--and knocked off his feet. Other officers block the view of the camera, so it is not, from the video alone, possible to know what happened.

(11) Perhaps the most egregious and telling indicator of little or no training, planning, experience and ability is the officer who runs to the doorway, thrusts his handgun between two fellow officers, likely shooting very close to their ears and eyes, to fire off some “me too” rounds. It is highly unlikely that this officer could have had any idea of his target, if he saw one at all. To be completely fair, he was probably acting as police officers do, tending toward action rather than inaction, but proper SWAT training teaches only appropriate, effective action. There is absolutely no room for “me too” shooting, on the street or during SWAT operations.

(12) It is not, of course, possible to know what the officers did prior to the video, but they had obviously been there for at least a short time before the videotaping began.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

The information available through media accounts does not present clear probable cause for a search of Guerena’s home. One media account noted:

“The reports state Jose Guerena; his brother, Alejandro; and Jose Celaya were named as suspects in briefings given to officers before the search warrants were served. Many of the officers' reports refer to the sheriff's long-term drug investigation as the reason for the search warrants.

Reports show about $100,000 in cash, marijuana and firearms were seized that morning from the four homes that were searched.

Items found in Jose Guerena's house included: a Colt .38-caliber handgun, paperwork, tax returns, insurance papers, bank statements and a bank card, reports showed.

Another report said detectives found body armor in a hallway closet and a U.S. Border Patrol hat in the garage.”

Notice that there is no information to indicate that any drugs or money were found in Guerena’s home, or that Guerena or his home, were in any way directly related to criminal activity. In fact, the police have, to date, not released the search warrant affidavit, warrant and return for Guerena’s home. However, there is no evidence to indicate that they found anything at all illegal in Guerena’s home. If they had, considering the public and Internet attention this case is generating, they surely would have made it public. Any drug case they were working has long been blown. Secrecy is no longer an issue.

None of the items listed as having been found in Guerena’s home are illegal, or indeed, unusual, particularly for a former Marine who had served two combat tours. One reason that the warrant information has not been released is likely that it was non-specific. In other words, the grounds for searching Guerena’s home may have been shaky at best.

Another media reports notes:

“According to a report, a detective interviewing Jose Guerena's younger brother, Jesus Gerardo Guerena, asked him about the slayings of Manuel and Cynthia Orozco. Jesus Guerena said he knew the couple because they were related to his brother Alejandro's wife.

According to Star archives, Manuel and Cynthia Orozco were killed during a home invasion in March 2010.”

This seems to indicate the police straining to find justification for SWAT involvement in the search, to say nothing of justifying the search itself. Guerena’s younger brother knew two people killed in a 2010 home invasion because they were related to his brother’s wife? Hopefully this is not the extent of the police’s justification for the search, or of Guerena’s being “linked to a double homicide.”

Very disturbing is the fact that the police did not allow Guerena medical help for about an hour and a quarter. In fact, they may not have entered the home after their fusillade of fire, instead withdrawing and eventually sending in a robot to poke and prod Guerena to make sure he was dead. That the SWAT team apparently did not immediately follow up their fire and completely clear the home is further, damning evidence of unbelievably poor leadership and execution. For those who have experience in such matters, the apparent behavior of the police is simply mind-boggling.

What is also unknown is how the police handled the aftermath of the shooting. Officer involved shootings are probably the most demanding situations officers face. The need for absolute perfection in the handling and collection of evidence, the interviewing of witnesses and involved officers, even the precise accounting for each round fired and its final resting place—a nightmare in this case—is of the utmost importance. The slightest deviation from proper procedure can indicate incompetence, cover-up or both.

As you read further accounts of this situation keep in mind that the actions of the police must be judged only on what they knew, or reasonably should have known, when they arrived to serve the warrant that morning. Post-shooting attempts to paint Guerena as the worlds most dangerous drug dealer and homicidal maniac (who, faced with four armed men he likely recognized as police did not take his weapon off safe) mean nothing at all, other than that the police are furiously spinning to justify what may turn out to be unjustifiable.

I don’t have all the facts. No one does. But based on the video, and what is currently known, it is very hard indeed to see how the police acted with anything less than amazing incompetence, incompetence that cost the life of a former Marine, a man who was apparently a solid citizen working hard in a copper mine to provide for his young family.
--------------------------------------------------

Re: SWAT murders Marine #152913
05/31/2011 10:31 PM
05/31/2011 10:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
Breacher Offline
Moderator
Breacher  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,705
Western States
If all of the currently released facts hold to be true, there would not really be any special or significant changes in law to support federal death penalty proceedings for the order givers in this situation.

Murder with automatic weapons under color of authority is about as serious as aggravating circumstances get. The clincher is not so much the initial shooting, but the purposeful delay in medical care. The location was "secure" in a matter of minutes, not the hour they decided to get the guy to bleed out. He was badly wounded, but quite possibly talking. Probably what happened is one of the officers pretended to be sympathetic, got Guerna's side of the story and then decided that side of the story needed to never be told to anyone else again.

I mentioned in another forum that the video of the raid looked "a bit keystone", and the SWAT "officers" also appeared to be on the young side, very young at that.

Someone made the decision to dress those people up and send them in without a whole lot of proper training, gambling the lives of everyone involved on what, "trial by fire"?

The previous writer is also right about that situation of the "theme music" being played in the rig on the way to the hit. I have heard differing opinions of this in the military and PMC settings. One big criticism of Wolf Weiss and Crescent Security was the constant blasting of heavy metal music in their rigs while on convoy protection duty but that was also to keep people awake and break up the monotony on long convoy missions. It is also a point of contention in several military units, but also one of the main reasons military vehicles don't come equipped with stereo systems (although a lot get retrofitted on the side).

I think what will happen though is sufficient evidence will be uncovered which crosses the gap between civil liability (which is already there) to blatant criminal liability under current law, no revolution needed. Even at that, I do see what would be a federal death penalty case in the making.

What makes this "let him bleed out" situation different from the Phillips and Mataseranu bank heist shootout is the Guerna shooting was a police initiated and police escalated confrontation. Too many experts are coming out with too much expert opinion to really make this the kind of case that a slick dope indulgent lawyer can just sweep under the rug.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: SWAT murders Marine #152914
07/03/2011 01:03 AM
07/03/2011 01:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
airforce Online content
Administrator
airforce  Online Content
Administrator
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
If you need more proof the GOP is full of shit, here it is . Pima County Republican Party chairman Brian Miller had the temerity to criticize the SWAT raid that killed Jose Guerena. So, party officials are trying to oust him from the chairmanship.

However, Brian Miller refused to resign . Good for him. Not everyone in the Pima County GOP is brain dead after all.

Quote
Brian Miller may be still the chairman of the Pima GOP, but he's without the keys to his kingdom.

Or a checkbook.

And the party's ordered him not to speak in public.

The Pima County Republican Party's executive committee told Miller on Thursday night to stop speaking for the party, to return its checkbook and credit cards, not enter into contracts, and to return the keys to party headquarters. Party leaders voted 10-2 on the resolution.

The move effectively ends—at least for the moment—Miller's leadership of the county party, although he refuses to resign.

Instead, he quoted John Belushi's Bluto from "Animal House" in a statement posted on Facebook: "What? Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"

"They asked for my resignation on grounds that it is the right thing to do for the party because... well, because they say so. I declined," Miller wrote.

Miller asked party members for support on the social networking website.

The move is "a political witchhunt," he said in an interview Friday morning, saying "there's no room for differing views" in the Republican Party.

The call for his resignation is a way of "avenging old political scores," Miller said

Calls to other Republican officials were not immediately returned Friday morning.

Before taking the chairmanship in December, Miller sought the GOP nomination in the CD 8 race. He received 7 percent of the vote, even though he had withdrawn and endorsed Jonathan Paton days prior to the August vote. The primary nod went to Jesse Kelly, who lost a close race to incumbent Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Miller, a pilot in the Air Force Reserve, has caught flak from some Republicans for supporting a military withdrawal from Afghanistan, and for saying that laws prohibiting demonstrations outside funerals abridge free speech.

The party has fractured over Miller's statements critical of police tactics in the May 5 SWAT raid that killed ex-Marine Joe Guerena.

The county chair sent out an official GOP email in May titled "We are all Jose Guerena," writing "It is my hope that this tragic event will lead to a renewed discussion of the policies that routinely lead to heavily armed and militarized local police invading private homes and a renewed interest in the civil liberties codified in our Bill of Rights."

Last month, the party forced Miller to retract a statement on a radio talk show calling Guerena's death "murder."

"It was never my intention to besmirch those officers, and it is my understanding that they were, indeed, following the procedures they were given," Miller wrote in a June 3 email.

"Their job is to follow established policies, protocols and guidelines they have been given," Miller wrote. "My concern is with the policies themselves, and whether or not there are better ways for law enforcement, not only here in Pima County but throughout the United States, to conduct themselves so as to minimize risk to the officers, suspects and innocent civilians who may be caught up in police actions."

Miller wouldn't comment on the Guerena incident Friday, calling it "water under the bridge" as a party issue. "I think we've addressed that," he said.

Miller "has made numerous public statements and comments indicating a distrust of Pima County and Tucson law enforcement agencies," the GOP's executive committee said in an email Friday morning.

"The misimpression created by Brian Miller, the current Chair of the County Committee, is not the policy of the County Committee and is in no manner adopted by the Executive Committee," said a resolution passed by the Republicans.

"Police militarization is not new, but difficult to discuss publicly," Miller said on Facebook on May 15. "LE is like the military: when u criticize policy, u r tagged "unpatriotic" / "weak on crime". Since I've gone from "unpatriotic" / "treasonous" last year to "courageous" / "principled" this year on Afghan conflict, I may as well dive into this can of worms that PCSD has opened." (...)
Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: SWAT murders Marine #152915
02/07/2013 02:55 AM
02/07/2013 02:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
airforce Online content
Administrator
airforce  Online Content
Administrator
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
If you're a police officer in Tucson, Arizona, killing a marine, a father, and a husband in a botched pot raid that turns up no pot is not enough to get you demoted.

However, if you send explicit photos of yourself to your boyfriend , you'll get busted from lieutenant to sergeant pretty quickly.

Figure that one out.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: SWAT murders Marine #152916
09/27/2013 05:27 AM
09/27/2013 05:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
airforce Online content
Administrator
airforce  Online Content
Administrator
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,924
Tulsa
This is an old story, but I have an update. The family of Jose Guerena will receive a $3.4 million settlement from all of the police agencies involved in his death.

Quote
The family of a man killed in a barrage of gunfire during a SWAT raid at a home southwest of Tucson has settled a lawsuit with four police agencies involved in the operation.

The $3.4 million settlement with the family of Jose Guerena will end a two-year legal battle between his wife, Vanessa, and Pima County.

The settlement includes Marana, Oro Valley and Sahuarita, which had officers on the SWAT team, officials confirmed on Thursday.

Guerena, 26, was shot and killed by SWAT team members on May 5, 2011, when they raided his house.

The former Marine had been asleep after working a night shift and was awakened by his wife, who thought intruders were in the yard. He was holding an AR-15 rifle when he was shot.

A spokeswoman for the Pima County Sheriff’s Department disagreed with the decision to settle, but hinted a prolonged trial could wind up costing taxpayers even more.

“The Pima County Sheriff’s Department strongly believes the events of May 5, 2011, were unfortunate and tragic, but the officers performed that day in accordance with their training and nationally recognized standards,” Deputy Tracy Suitt wrote.

“However, legal advisers and insurers recognize the unpredictable resolution of disputes at trial regarding police conduct and even well-accepted police tactics. As a result, well-established business and insurance principles call for compromise and the resolution of disputed cases to mitigate risk and avoid the expense of a trial.”

Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry called the agreement a “calculated risk-management settlement.”

The settlement is not an admission of any wrongdoing, Huckelberry said....
Onward and upward,
airforce


.
©>
©All information posted on this site is the private property of the individual author and AWRM.net and may not be reproduced without permission. © 2001-2020 AWRM.net All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1