He 'may' have been a Mason and 'supposedly' a Christian. For myself I have seen NO evidence of any church affiliation on his part.

I have seen your supposition about his Masonic ties. If you have HARD evidence they prompted it I would LOVE to see it.

He said he was a Freemason in his Facebook page, before they took it down. Other than his own claim to be a Christian and a Freemason, I've not seen a lot of evidence either.

Onward and upward,
airforce

J. Croft
What I want to know is what do you have against Masons? And what evil have Masons done to make some people hate them.

So far I've saw the media label him everything from a communist to a right wing Nazi.

I could care less what he was. It doesn't matter if he was a Illuminati worshiping mason or a little green man from mars. The fact is that he murdered a bunch of kids who had harmed no one. If he wanted to go after the ruling class that's one thing but kids are off limits.

Political Opportunism Follows Norway Tragedy
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by Alex Newman
Wednesday, 27 July 2011

The official body count from the Norway terror attack was still changing even early this week. Some of the victims had not even been located yet — let alone buried.

But across the world, “experts,” journalists, politicians — just about everybody with an opinion, really — was already either on offense or defense. The media-driven witch-hunt began almost instantly.

Israel haters and Palestinian activists are trying to pin the killer on Israel. Anti-Christian zealots are screeching about the “dangers” of Christianity. Leftist political opportunists are working fiendishly to link the terror to right-of-center parties and activists across Europe. And critics of Freemasonry are hyping his membership in Oslo’s Masonic lodge.

Meanwhile, all of those groups are trying to put as much distance as possible between themselves and the ideas — or at least the methods — supposedly espoused by the killer in police custody.

The Norwegian Order of Freemasons, for example, promptly issued a press release expelling Anders Behring Breivik as soon as his name was publicly released. The "grand master" said Breivik’s values were contrary to those of Masonry and pledged to cooperate with authorities as needed.

Christians across the world were quick to point out that the teachings of Jesus Christ — “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you” (Matthew 5:44), for instance — are diametrically opposed to such violence. Of course, the killer wasn't even a true Christian by his own admission, but that hasn't stopped the press.

Libertarians, conservatives, neo-Nazis, nationalists, racist groups, Masons, Muslims, Zionists, neo-cons, collectivists, anti-immigration activists — every group with the slightest connection to ideas even remotely along the lines of the killer’s has issued statements. As if “ideas” could somehow be responsible for the rampage.

The reason for the frightened frenzy, however, is simple. Despite calls for calm, mourning, and rationality, a sizeable segment of the media and political establishment began manipulating the tragedy almost instantly, seeking to score points for their pet causes or against their perceived political opponents.

The cries have almost become hysterical — particularly vicious against anyone perceived to be anti-Muslim, anti-“multiculturalism,” or anti-immigration. And the political blame game is still growing.

“Right-wing extremists” should not be allowed to have gun licenses, suggested a Norwegian academic in one of the nation’s big newspapers. Despite the fact that Norway has extraordinarily strict gun control, anti-gun zealots around the world are also exploiting the tragedy. "The staggering toll of young lives taken by a gunman at the Utoya youth camp reminds us all, once again, that guns are the enablers of mass killers," the U.S.-based Brady Campaign said in statement. In Australia and other nations, activists were on the attack as well.

Calls for more “hate crimes” prosecutions and tighter policing of the Internet have also exploded, even though in much of Europe broad swaths of political discourse have already been criminalized. Some countries, such as Finland, have just announced that they would be scrutinizing the web more closely.

Editorials urging a Europe-wide “crackdown” on “right-wing extremism” have appeared, too. They went hand-in-hand with the announcement that the European Union’s police agency would be creating a new taskforce to focus on “non-Islamic extremism” in Northern Europe.

In the United Kingdom, anti-immigration activists are under extraordinary pressure as authorities investigate potential links between the Norwegian terrorist and groups like the English Defence League (EDL). Pressure groups are calling for the EDL to be classified as an “extremist” organization and for a march it was planning to be prohibited.

Across Europe, a host of political parties, ranging from mainstream Christian Democrats to smaller nationalist parties, are also under intense fire. The media has been waging an unprecedented campaign to demonize them. Incredibly, politicians such as Geert Wilders of the Dutch Freedom Party are even being partly blamed for the atrocity by some of the more extreme commentators. "I would say Wilders is not legally guilty,” historian Dirk-Jan van Baar was quoted as saying in Dutch state media. “But as a politician he must be perfectly aware that there is such a thing as political responsibility."

Other “analysts” cited the political climate of increasing concern about Muslim immigration. “It's part of a growing atmosphere in Europe," political scientist James Cohen with the American University in Paris told the New York Daily News. "It's part of the terrain from which men like (Breivik) are gaining their inspiration."

There will, of course, come a time to discuss policy. But the shameful and immediate opportunism of many media outlets and leftist groups has already started to spark a backlash worldwide.

“Liberals should stop using this tragedy to score points against conservatives,” wrote Tim Stanley in the U.K. Telegraph. “It’s in very poor taste and reflects a profound confusion of priorities.”

A column in Australia’s Herald Sun newspaper entitled “Leftist glee is ghoulish” summed up the media’s general response well, citing more than a few mainstream news outlets and radical leftists that seized the opportunity to “smear their political enemies.” But, the piece noted, “attempts to now smear into silence … must not succeed.”

Of course, before much was known about the attack, some “neoconservatives” were already using the tragedy to advance their own political agendas — more war in the Middle East and a beefed up global terror war. But once information about the killer emerged, libertarians and anti-war activists tried to pin the blame for the tragedy on “neocons” for allegedly inciting hatred against Muslims.

There have been some voices of moderation amid the hysterical finger pointing, however. "In general, invoking the ideological meanderings of psychopaths is a stalking horse for narrowing permissible dissent," wrote the Cato Institute's Gene Healy in a column for the Washington Examiner. "There's little to be learned from the acts of 'the obsessed and deranged.' But these incidents ought to teach us not to use tragedy to score partisan points.”

In Norway, various policy debates have started to pick up steam. Many Norwegians, for example, are outraged that the admitted terrorist could be released in as little as 15 to 30 years under current law. The question of how it could have taken police more than an hour to arrive at the shooting spree has sparked hard questions as well.

Right now, the terror investigation is still ongoing. The potential existence of a broader conspiracy — the killer in custody claims there are other “cells” waiting to unleash more bloodshed — is still being looked at.

The government, meanwhile, has promised to review security procedures while saying that “more democracy” is the answer. There will undoubtedly be changes coming soon, but the ruling Labor Party has promised that the nation will not abandon its values over terrorism. How the tragedy will affect the rest of the world remains to be seen.

Divide and conquer.

And yet again, we do it to ourselves.

It would be easier if I could simply accept the destruction of my nation and the future of my children.

But I can't...

I don't think we are. Certainly, we can disagree with each other about certain things. (Heck, I'm a free market anarchist. If I ever see someone here at AWRM who agrees with everything I have to say, I'm going to run away screaming in terror.)

It's okay to disagree with each other about political philosophy but, as John Adams famously said, "Facts are stubborn things." When you find someone lying (or "distorting the truth"), it's perfectly okay to call him out on it. Fortunately, I've not seen that happen here very much, but you will on other boards--and certainly, our enemies don't hesitate to lie about us. When that happens, remember what Adams said, and act accordingly.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Seconded. After all, several of our founders were Masons; George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Hancock, and Nathanael Green all were, among others.

For that matter I am a Mason. I don't go to meetings and haven't paid any dues in over 12 years, but I DID go thru it. There are other Brother Militia members that are active Masons also.

If someone has an honest beef with Masons I would like to hear it so we can discuss it rationally. By rationally I want 'FACTS' and not 'I HEARD' or 'READ ON THE INTERNET' BS.

I third the request, I am a Mason too and I would like to know the facts too.

Well, I struck a nerve...

Look: your social club/secret society is a suspicion magnet for a reason-there's a lot to be suspicious about.

"Ask for the facts"-fact is, Masons were on both sides leading the American Revolution. It was an arranged war... and I regret typing this but it's true, it was set up for Colonials to be squeezed into fighting for independence from Britain and become Americans in name as well as fact.

Fact is Masons have always got extra special deals and gotten out of trouble with a few coded signals and proclaiming "oh god in heaven is there no relief for the widow's son". Almost always is with them.

Fact: in the 1830's an anti-freemason party was formed as a 3rd party that scared them underground they got so blatant in their favors and corruption, so they went underground... course now they don't have much to worry about because 'murikans have been house broken.

I have never met a poor, out-on-his-ass Mason. Neither have anybody I know. I'm sure they're out there though, somewhere...

Worse, much worse, Freemasonic/occultic symbology form the architecture of Washington DC, and for that matter many major structures in all cities. Those that design the buildings-freemasons. Want a public office-gotta be a lodge brother. And have a law degree but lawyers are another topic for another time.

Too many researchers and writers better than myself have come to the same conclusion. Texe Marrs off the top of my mind with his Codex Magica and Mysterious Monuments, Fritz Springmeier, etc. You look at their research or know their gang signs... yeah, exactly that... you know their gang signs and pay attention to the news when you see about any national or world leader, or celebrity-same damn gang.

Not that y'all in the Blue Lodge would know about that... I hope.

Anders Breivik is a lodge brother-sorry, but you civic minded Masons are used as the respectable trappings of a power cult, a gang, an occultic religion that worships Lucifer as god... though you in the Blue Lodge aren't made aware of that.

Whose to say Breivik didn't get support? Whose to say the narrative about the Norway terror attacks are being presented truthfully? He did go to a meeting in London for high level Masons...

In other words, those of you who are Masons, you and your brothers are going to have to get together and prove that you in the Blue Lodge aren't in it for the local inside connections and favoritism, and those reading this in the upper Scottish/York Rite are going to have to work damn hard to prove you're not:

*Angling for power after the collapse.
*Aren't automatically taking orders from "upper management".
*Aren't feds, or ringers-yes you know exactly what I mean by that...

...whichever of the above applies to you reading this.

And I find it funny that I get more commentary about ripping on the world's oldest gang than any calls to retake local offices and clearing them of the trash. Win and reestablish true Freedom in a local community and using it as an example to rouse that long-dormant American spirit that forced the 33rd degree Freemasons to compromise with their 1787 constitution coup d'etat and incorporate the Bill of Rights.

...Course that might mean going up against some lodge brothers... so who you loyal to?

Just what I figured. More 'History Channel' and internet BS from folks who have been black balled and denied entrance into the Masons.

J. Croft, let me know when you have any actual first hand knowledge about the Masons.

Now I have a question. What Blue Lodge black balled you and denied you entrance?

Also if you REALLY knew anything about the Masons you would know that each State has Jurisdiction over the lodges in its state and NOT the National Chapter in DC. If you did you would know that while some states do recognize Black Masons (Prince Hall) others do not. This is mostly a throw back to the Civil War and the individual States rights. Same thing goes for Masons of the FEMALE persuasion.

Now I have wasted ALL the time I am going to with this as we have MUCH more important things to do in the upcoming days.

Instead of wasting time on 'rumors', 'conspiracy theorys',and Alex Jones, I would suggest some good old fashioned training somewhere else besides in front of a computer/TV screen.

Hawk45, point by point...

Just what I figured. More 'History Channel' and internet BS from folks who have been black balled and denied entrance into the Masons.

Or maybe it's what people have actually found out via research and experience. Just how much experience do you have with the Masons-beyond your lodge and who you've met? Furthermore, how do you know they're being truthful?

I mean we're on the interent-is everything we type and read BS? Would that include AWRM?

I think you know what my argument is.

J. Croft, let me know when you have any actual first hand knowledge about the Masons.

Family.

My parents were kind of proto-survivalists, but I think they're more a more realistic offshoot of hippies than conservatives who saw the handwriting on the wall-except they yanked the trigger awful early. Not fun growing up and it put me off on the subject for my youth, until after 9/11.

ANYWAY... on my dad's side all my uncles and grandfolks were Masons-drunk, lying, creepy, hustling, backbiting, backtabbing, the love of God simply NOT in them.

I of course got hooked into Christian Fundamentalism... the branch predicting the Rapture every other year or so (imagine that shit? You're growing up with a hide your ass survival mindset and hate it, grow up expecting... hoping for the apocalypse... and miss out on so much.) ...Yeah, and I learned about the occultic Luciferian aspects of Freemasonry, and I learned about what shits they can be from my dad's side.

I was so bold as to ask them about it; they said they were doing good, blah blah blah. I told them they were an evil organization and worshipped satan-I could be a blunt little shit back in the day.

Anyway that was the last I heard from that bunch.
Just as well as they were some miserable sons of bitches and they just weren't good people. And as I've grown up I've seen what you Hawk45 don't or won't; it's a power cult, a pyramid scheme, and the country would be much better off if the anti-freemason party were resurrected.

I mean, you know about the Battle of Athens, TN right? Why is that a near-forgotten bit of history rather than an example of how to clean out your local government of the oath traitors? Much of the blame can be laid on the lodge brothers and sisters. You yourself admitted you haven't attended in 12 years so again, what do you know?


Now I have a question. What Blue Lodge black balled you and denied you entrance?

Never applied. Obvious from reading the previous you know why.

As for the rest of yoru reply-first I'm no fan of Alex Jones, he's overly dramatic, does fudge facts and can even be shysty-first hand experience here-but that doesn't mean he doesn't break important news. You can only take what's good and chuck the rest.

Second, the formal structure of an organization isn't nearly as important as who is in what position... let you think on that.

Third, I would add with training getting lists of oath traitors in the area, lists of people who can/will participate in political activity to retake lost ground, forming paintball teams as a gateway to the militia, gardening co-ops as a gateway to survivalism... I'd add doing the same with a machine shop-figure out a product you can turn out and make some money. Always possibilities with a machine shop.

Always so much to do... for the Freemasons it would be prove you're not a good ol' boys club at best and do that recall election/clean house thing I've always advocated. Might change some minds about you guys.

I think most distrust/hate of the masons comes from their secrecy. If a person dosent know they naturally distrust, hate, fear, resent you get the idea. One of my best friends, we grew up together been friends nearly 30yrs. shared, talked about everything he is very tight lipped about what goes on at his lodge. Me personally I don't care to be a mason I don't care if anyone else is or wants to. I heard an evangelist give a message on shriners, masons, he was both, started as a shriner then went to the masons got pretty high up. He was lost at the time. When he got saved he turned from it, destroyed his masonic literature, jewelry, whatever he had pertaining to the masons.
I guess that message stuck with me, if a lost man can rise that high, be saved, and turn his back to this group how much can God be involved in it. Or maybe which god is involved.

Any discussion of the Masonic "conspiracy" is a distraction. It's a waste of time to beat each other over the head concerning this matter.

But, if youall keep talking about it I'm going to tell ya what I know.

Yall done did it now

What we have to understand is that every time someone joins a club, committee, society, etc they do so based upon their own needs, desires, and goals.
Every time a club, society,committee, etc allows a new member they do so for the good of that group. The Elks, Masons, Rosicrucians, Shriners, are no different. If your goal was to join and help you will only associate with those like you. If you are a bit tinged and join for self aggrandizement you will be successful. That is the purpose of the secrecy.
The original Illuminati I studied were interested in the studies. Later I learned some real truths that made me go a new way.
The same is true for every member of any group who studies the "Secret" way. They arrive at a point when they must decide to go toward the light or to carry the light.
That is the purpose of the lamp lighters. They issue a member toward a place in their being where the must all make this choice. Some however never study and never proceed beyond the door. These have friends, do charitable works, and keep the 9 parking spaces by the side door vacant for special guests.
If you belong to a group and you are doing good work for the brothers, their families, the Community, and the world, may Yahweh bless you.
If you think the secret rites are just a bunch of non-sense to keep you paying dues you are not studying, and haven't reached that place where you need a light, pray for Yahweh's guidance each time you study. He will tell you when to stop.
The biggest secret I learned was that there can be no good unless there is Evil. There can be no salvation unless there is something so vile you must be saved from it by Yahweh.

Brother you are mistaken about Shiners becoming Masons.

To become a Shriner you first have to be a Mason so being a Mason comes first.

As far as a lot to be suspicious about that is true for all Clubs, Societies, and Organizations that either have secrets or simply that not much is know about them.

So what you said about the Masons would also be true for the K of C (Knights of Columbus) so why don't you and others also post negative things about them?

Oh by the away the Masons are not a Secret Society or Club they are just a Society or Club with Secrets

I used to be a Member of an Outlaw Motorcycle Club, and there were things that we did not talk to outsiders about, and one of my friends worked at a major Defense Contractor and was very high up and must have had a fairly high Security Clearance and he did not talk about a lot of things and he even left the Country without telling even his family that he was going to leave, so does that mean anything more or less then the Masons, K of C or even my Biker Gang or even the Famous or Infamous, depending on your viewpoint, Hells Angels keeping some things Secret.

So what is the big deal about that?

Just because someone is a Mason or in the K of C does not mean that they all believe the same way about all issues, especially Politics and Religion. Well actually in the Case of the K of C since they are all Catholics they should all believe the same or close to it about religion.

And how about the members of this board or Patriots in general, do we all believe the same on all issues?

Now where did you get that idea from?

So lets see.

So do you mean that the Masonic Founding Fathers had an Arrangement with General Gage or did this Arrangement go even higher and maybe went all the way to an Arrangement between the Evil Masonic Founding Fathers and the Evil King George.

So who was this Arrangement between?

Fact: a person who belongs to the same Club, Organization, Society, or Group or even only wears a Ring from the Same School, will usually be given preferential treatment or treated better then a person who does not belong to the same Club etc.

This applies to Masons the same as it applies to Brothers of a College Fraternity or Brothers of the K of C or Between men who wear a Trident Ring meaning Navy SEALS etc.

By the way the handshake is not the only way for one Mason to know another man is a Mason and it is a Fact that during the Revolution being a Mason saved more then one mans life since a Mason would not want to kill a Brother Mason any more then a member of the K of C would want to kill a Lodge Brother.

So the truth is there is nothing suspicious about a Mason giving special deals of helping a brother Mason out of trouble.

As you might have guessed I am a Mason and my friends who are Masons and Shriners are not Evil People out to dominate the World and they are not all rich or powerful

So lets see.

It takes money to Join the Masons and it takes money for yearly dues so it is no wonder that a poor out on his ass person would not be able to become a Mason in the first place.

Also since a Mason will help another Mason, there would be nothing suspicious if there were no poor Masons.

If you think that all Masons are rich or powerful you are very very very mistaken.

One of my Masonic friends is an Officer in the Merchant Marine and even though he is not poor he is not rich and he works long hours for his money.

Another of my Masonic friends is a real Stone Mason, meaning he is a Construction Worker so he is not rich.

And I am Mason and I am very far from being rich and I am very close to being a poor, out-on-his-ass Mason.

Friend do you have any idea of what a real working Mason actually is?

And do you also believe that there is Evil behind the names that are written on the Structural Steel of Buildings by Ironworkers. Or maybe a Christian carving or placing a mark of a Cross or a Fish on a building or a structure that he is or has finished building. Oh I almost forgot, how about that little thing from World War Two, Kilroy Was Here.

Dang sorry that you were so unlucky that all the Bad, Rotten, Son of a B*tch Masons were not only in your area but were members of your Family. Sorry just kidding.

Now the truth is that every group of people on this earth maybe even in this Universe is going to have some Bad Apples and that is true of Masons as it is true of the K of C, School Teachers, Boy Scout Scout Masters, and even The Tea Party or people who refer to themselves as Patriots, and this sadly most likely even includes some member of this board.

So what does all the stuff you posted about Masons mean?

Well to me it and hopefully to most logical people it means absolutely nothing.

You have not met any logical standard of proof and all of what you posted is either rumors, or conjecture.

And you should be very concerned about only posting proven facts and truths or at least opinions that are logical since it is a truth that if a person posts something as fact or a proven truth and people reading it know enough about the subject in question to know that what was posted is not true or at least has not been proven true then the person who posted it can lose credibility.

And you have lost some credibility with me because of what you have posted about Masons.

See the thing is if you are wrong about Masons then you could be wrong about other thing or even everything.

One last thing I am very very open minded and if there is ever any real evidence or proof that the Masonic Lodge is in some way Evil or an Enemy of our Republic then I want to see it and if I believe it is true and factual then I am willing to reconsider my position and even consider not being a Mason or in supporting them in any way.

Sorry may have been posting tired also.

Cute post there, Sniper...

I stand by everything I posted. Everything. You can say I didn't present evidence to buttress my argument all you want, but, I did.

You want to change people's minds about Masons, you have to DO, not use clever wording.

Nobody forces you to read what I post.