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Turn Them Over: #155132
11/09/2012 12:56 PM
11/09/2012 12:56 PM
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Turn Them Over: Feinstein Moves To Ban ALL Assault Rifles, High Capacity Magazines, and Pistol Grips


Mac Slavo
SHTFplan.com
Nov 8, 2012

The agenda no longer needs to be hidden from public view. With President Obama winning another term and democrats taking control of the Senate, the move to fundamentally change America from within has begun – with a vengeance.

We’re all aware of the restrictive gun laws in the State of California which require low capacity magazines for handguns, fixed magazines for “assault” rifles, and a whole lot of running around just to be granted the right to carry a concealed firearm.

Now, Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), who has championed gun control in her state for decades and co-wrote the original assault weapons ban enacted by the federal government in the 1990′s, wishes to bring even more stringent federal mandates to the land of the free.

What is being proposed by Feinstein is the most significant attack on the second amendment in history.

It would essentially ban thousands of firearms and require gun owners to turn them over to the Federal government.

I don’t have the minutes of the meeting (yet), but sources tell me California Senator and longtime gun-hater Dianne Feinstein’s legal staff held meetings on Friday with FTB/ATF legal staff to discuss a new “Assault Weapons Ban” Madame Feinstein would be looking to push through Congress if President Obama wins reelection.

This same “pretty good intelligence” says the items that would lead to a banwould ban pistol grips and “high-capacity” magazines, eliminate any grandfathering and ban sales of “weapons in possession”.

I don’t know about you, but if these things come to pass and I’m “in possession” I’m certainly not selling.

In fact, the lack of interest in the idea surprised the California liberal’s legal staffers. Apparently, they believe no logical person could possible disagree with them.



I began receiving the first reports of increases in gun buying by people concerned about tomorrow’s election. Dealers in Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama and Indiana all tell me there hasn’t been a huge number of buyers expressing those concerns, but the numbers were noticeable.

Among that group -and the majority of “regular” purchasers- the core driving most of the purchasing seem to be in their mid-to-late 30s. Again, home and personal defense are the most frequently cited reasons for buying.

Source: Shooting Wire

At a Congressional budget meeting in September of this year, Feinstein alluded to her desire to reintroduce federal assault weapons ban regulations similar to those she helped cosponsor and pass in 1994 during the Presidency of Bill Clinton:

“Ladies and gentlemen, it is time to say, once again, in legislation, weapons of war do not belong on our streets…”
September 5, 2012

Is it any wonder that shares of stocks like Smith & Wesson and Ruger surged this morning in response to President Obama winning a second term? While the majority of stocks across the world are in the midst of a sell-off and economic conditions indicate the country is in a recession, America’s gun owners aren’t waiting to see what happens next.

Senator Feinstein is serious, and despite this most recent report appearing only as a rumor, her comments earlier this year and her actions two decades ago, should leave no question as to where this is headed.

They are coming for our guns; plain and simple.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: Turn Them Over: #155133
11/09/2012 12:58 PM
11/09/2012 12:58 PM
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Proof: Obama Is Coming for Your Guns


Prison Planet.com
November 9, 2012

While ignorant Obamanoids can’t get past “their” victory in re-electing the president they identify with, our Constitutional republic is quickly crumbling under a second term authoritarian no longer restricted by the prospect of facing another election.

The Obama Administration has openly announced their intent to bring back the Assault Weapons Ban that was “law” for ten years, but this time Dianne Feinstein and the gun-grabbing liberals aren’t just restricting new weapons & ammo purchases, but seeking legislation to require arms be turned in and private sales be barred. Simultaneously, the Obama Administration is helping to revive the United Nations Small Arms Treaty, which will undermine the sovereignty of the 2nd Amendment by putting international control over the flow of weapons and civilian ownership, inevitably affecting gun rights inside the U.S. particularly in border zones.

This is not speculation, this is not hyperbole, this is not myth– but the admitted plan now underway. We must awaken to this authoritarian control measure and stop it through political pressure before it is too late. Get this special report, featuring research by Alex Jones and Infowars reporters David Knight and Aaron Dykes, out to everyone you know!

Obama Calls for Renewal of Assault Weapons Ban
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/obama-calls-for-renewal-of-assau…

Globalists Pull Out All Stops to Grab Guns After Obama Victory
http://www.infowars.com/globalists-pull-out-all-stops-to-grab-guns-after-obam…

Turn Them Over: Feinstein Moves To Ban ALL Assault Rifles, High Capacity Magazines, and Pistol Grips
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/turn-them-over-feinstein-moves-to-ban-a…

After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N. arms treaty talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J2012…

Senator Feinstein looking to introduce new assault weapons ban
http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-feinstein-looking-to-introduce-new-as…

U.N. Celebrates Obama Re-election by Pushing Global Gun Control, says Second Amendment Foundation
http://www.infowars.com/u-n-celebrates-obama-re-election-by-pushing-global-gu…

Hours After Reelection, Obama Green Lights UN Gun Grab
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/13586-hours-after-re-election-obama…


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: Turn Them Over: #155134
11/09/2012 04:16 PM
11/09/2012 04:16 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by ConSigCor:
[b]Proof: Obama Is Coming for Your Guns


Prison Planet.com
November 9, 2012

While ignorant Obamanoids can’t get past “their” victory in re-electing the president they identify with, our Constitutional republic is quickly crumbling under a second term authoritarian no longer restricted by the prospect of facing another election.

The Obama Administration has openly announced their intent to bring back the Assault Weapons Ban that was “law” for ten years, but this time Dianne Feinstein and the gun-grabbing liberals aren’t just restricting new weapons & ammo purchases, but seeking legislation to require arms be turned in and private sales be barred. Simultaneously, the Obama Administration is helping to revive the United Nations Small Arms Treaty, which will undermine the sovereignty of the 2nd Amendment by putting international control over the flow of weapons and civilian ownership, inevitably affecting gun rights inside the U.S. particularly in border zones.

This is not speculation, this is not hyperbole, this is not myth– but the admitted plan now underway. We must awaken to this authoritarian control measure and stop it through political pressure before it is too late. Get this special report, featuring research by Alex Jones and Infowars reporters David Knight and Aaron Dykes, out to everyone you know!

Obama Calls for Renewal of Assault Weapons Ban
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/obama-calls-for-renewal-of-assau…

Globalists Pull Out All Stops to Grab Guns After Obama Victory
http://www.infowars.com/globalists-pull-out-all-stops-to-grab-guns-after-obam…

Turn Them Over: Feinstein Moves To Ban ALL Assault Rifles, High Capacity Magazines, and Pistol Grips
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/turn-them-over-feinstein-moves-to-ban-a…

After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N. arms treaty talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J2012…

Senator Feinstein looking to introduce new assault weapons ban
http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-feinstein-looking-to-introduce-new-as…

U.N. Celebrates Obama Re-election by Pushing Global Gun Control, says Second Amendment Foundation
http://www.infowars.com/u-n-celebrates-obama-re-election-by-pushing-global-gu…

Hours After Reelection, Obama Green Lights UN Gun Grab
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/13586-hours-after-re-election-obama… [/b]
Fuck Obama, Feinstein, and any traitors who would enforce this "law".

Let them come and get them.


-Andy

Truth is treason in the empire of lies.

Si vis pacem, parabellum

Live free or die
Re: Turn Them Over: #155135
11/09/2012 04:48 PM
11/09/2012 04:48 PM
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Good bitch, it's what I was hoping for, getting this game on.

No more doublespeak bullshit. The game will be out in the open more or less. Collaborators, snitches, enemy operatives and jackboot thugs can look the fuck out.

If Obama is smart, he will delay that shit and try to stay out of it, knowing that if he signs the bills that will inevitably start the armed rebellion, his economic recovery plans are straight up done. Of course the 43 Trillion the banksters stole might be forgotten about in the mix (guess again).

Something tells me Obama is going to gets smart real quick on this and turn on the gun ban crowd when he knows the going will get tough if he goes their way. What they are going to do is try and start the civil war as a means of getting out from under the various investigations over who stole all that bailout money.

Word has it that some mainstream guy in charge over at CNBC's kids and nanny all got murdered in some grotesque way when his organization was going public over this big money laundering bank fraud thing related to the bailouts.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: Turn Them Over: #155136
11/09/2012 05:12 PM
11/09/2012 05:12 PM
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If you do a little research, you'll find that Obummer said before the election that after he won they wanted to reinstate the assault weapons ban. Since he no longer has to worry about running again he can pretty much do as he pleases without any political repercussions.

If they are actually foolish enough to try this, they know it will be game on. While the majority of pussified amerikans will comply with the edict; the government will have the perfect excuse to eliminate people on their hit list. The media will just claim those "evil terrorists resisted arrest".


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: Turn Them Over: #155137
11/09/2012 05:15 PM
11/09/2012 05:15 PM
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This bitch is always trying to do something like that. We'll see if it actually passed.


"Remember that your adversary's desire to live is usually more powerful than whatever ammunition your are carrying in your firearms. Plan accordingly." -tire iron
Re: Turn Them Over: #155138
11/09/2012 06:16 PM
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Just because FineSwine wants it doesn't mean that the rest of the Senate will vote for it and then there is the House.


VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Re: Turn Them Over: #155139
11/09/2012 06:24 PM
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Prison Planet.com
We must awaken to this authoritarian control measure and stop it through political pressure before it is too late.
Fuck political pressure

Prison Planet apparently believes that political pressure actually has a chance to change things, I say bull shit.

The only thing that will work is Armed Resistance

The Militia and Patriots in general need to stop believing that things can be changed peacefully and start understanding that the only thing that will convince the enemy is Fear of what an Armed Militia Can Do.

So what should we do, that is simple, Large Armed Demonstrations and if that fails then there is only one thing left, WAR, Bloody Civil War and it will make both the American Revolution and the First Civil War seem peaceful and bloodless by comparison.

We need to have Large Armed Demonstrations in every State Capital, in every Country Seat and in Every Large, Medium and Small City and Town so that the People themselves will start to understand what will happen if the bastards try to take our Weapons.

The People especially the Mindless Sheep must be made to understand that if the Enemy come for our guns, we will Fight, and there will be Civil War, and in Civil Wars it is not only the Soldiers who die, noncombatants meaning the Sheep and other People also have a tendency to die.

The Ignorant People especially the Obama Supporters and other Liberals need to be made to understand that what is now Happening in Syria will happen on the streets of every American City and a lot of Liberals will die on the street and their bodies will rot where they lay.

And as to DC that City is meaningless, without the States Backing it up it is powerless.

Also Patriots in the Red States need to contact and discuss with the Conservative Politicians in their State, Seceding from the rest of the Country.

The truth is all that is needed to stop this is for a few States to not just threaten to Secede but to have the votes of the State Legislature for Secession and the only thing necessary is the Governors Signature for the State to officially Secede.


VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Re: Turn Them Over: #155140
11/09/2012 06:28 PM
11/09/2012 06:28 PM
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ConSigCor
Since he no longer has to worry about running again he can pretty much do as he pleases without any political repercussions.
Brother, even though Obama doesn't have to worry about running again, the Congressional Rats still have to worry about the next Election.


VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Re: Turn Them Over: #155141
11/09/2012 06:35 PM
11/09/2012 06:35 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Sniper_762X51:
Quote
[b]Prison Planet.com
We must awaken to this authoritarian control measure and stop it through political pressure before it is too late.
Fuck political pressure

Prison Planet apparently believes that political pressure actually has a chance to change things, I say bull shit.

The only thing that will work is Armed Resistance

The Militia and Patriots in general need to stop believing that things can be changed peacefully and start understanding that the only thing that will convince the enemy is Fear of what an Armed Militia Can Do.

So what should we do, that is simple, Large Armed Demonstrations and if that fails then there is only one thing left, WAR, Bloody Civil War and it will make both the American Revolution and the First Civil War seem peaceful and bloodless by comparison.

We need to have Large Armed Demonstrations in every State Capital, in every Country Seat and in Every Large, Medium and Small City and Town so that the People themselves will start to understand what will happen if the bastards try to take our Weapons.

The People especially the Mindless Sheep must be made to understand that if the Enemy come for our guns, we will Fight, and there will be Civil War, and in Civil Wars it is not only the Soldiers who die, noncombatants meaning the Sheep and other People also have a tendency to die.

The Ignorant People especially the Obama Supporters and other Liberals need to be made to understand that what is now Happening in Syria will happen on the streets of every American City and a lot of Liberals will die on the street and their bodies will rot where they lay.

And as to DC that City is meaningless, without the States Backing it up it is powerless.

Also Patriots in the Red States need to contact and discuss with the Conservative Politicians in their State, Seceding from the rest of the Country.

The truth is all that is needed to stop this is for a few States to not just threaten to Secede but to have the votes of the State Legislature for Secession and the only thing necessary is the Governors Signature for the State to officially Secede. [/b]
You will wait too long but at least you have some decent idea on enemy identification.



The War for America
Fight Everywhere
III
Re: Turn Them Over: #155142
11/09/2012 06:43 PM
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I've said for years that there is no political, nor peaceful solution.

1776 or 1860 all over again. Take your pick.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: Turn Them Over: #155143
11/09/2012 07:04 PM
11/09/2012 07:04 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by ConSigCor:
I've said for years that there is no political, nor peaceful solution.

1776 or 1860 all over again. Take your pick.
Of course there are political and peaceful solutions. They come at the negotiating table once the enemy has taken whatever losses are sufficient to make them get reasonable.

Those peaceful solutions don't come as the result of eloquent debate or even loud arguing, they come when the other side figures out exactly how painful it is to screw with the liberties of those who will fight for liberty.

With that understanding, we also must recognize that getting the enemy to a meaningful negotiation has to be the goal of armed conflict, since absolute extermination of an idea is not exactly possible.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: Turn Them Over: #155144
11/09/2012 07:06 PM
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drjarhead
You will wait too long but at least you have some decent idea on enemy identification.
I feel that we should try to avoid War by first having Armed Demonstrations before the Legislature votes for it, but we should be geared up and prepared at the same time just in case the Enemy attempts any preemptive attacks.

And there is also this.

Every Patriot who is willing to Fight for their Rights, should get ready to Fight and the President Signing it should be the signal that it is Game On.

And we must take our Civilian Morality and leave it home, and become Warriors who's only purpose is to Win The War.

If we lose there will not be any Awards for Good Sportsmanship, we will just be losers and the surviving Freedom Fighters and our Wives and Older Children will die in the Camps and our Young Children's fate will be far worse then mere death for they will be given to Liberal Families to be reeducated and will become the next generation of Obama's Brown Shirts or Gestapo and when the Anti-Christ takes power our children will gladly receive the Mark of the Beast and their immortal Souls will be lost.


VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Re: Turn Them Over: #155145
11/09/2012 08:02 PM
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Breacher
With that understanding, we also must recognize that getting the enemy to a meaningful negotiation has to be the goal of armed conflict, since absolute extermination of an idea is not exactly possible.
Brother you and I believe differently on this, I say To Hell with negotiations.

The Goal of the War has to be destroying the Enemy as completely as possible so they lose all their Power. Then the Freedom Fighters and other Patriots will be in full control of our restored Republic.

The Liberals who are left will be powerless.

While an Idea is almost impossible to Exterminate, it is not only possible but fully doable to reduce the number of people who believe in that Idea to a level that they are of no real consequence.

And it is not necessary to exterminate all the Liberals to accomplish this, all that is needed is to Neuter them oh and I don't mean as you geld a horse, it can be done by outlawing the Democratic Party, and Liberalism itself and preventing Liberals from voting plus getting rid of all Liberal Organizations e.g. the SPLC, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

And what about the victims of our Evil Government are they not deserving of Justice and should the Enemy bastards at the top escape the punishment that they deserve.

If there is to be War then it must be Total War and we must not stop fighting when we have total victory within our grasp.

Here is the Truth, if the Enemy meaning Liberals are permitted to retain even the slightest amount of power they will use that power to destroy any gains we have won and I believe most people understand this. This is just the way that the Evil of Liberalism works it is a Cancer that keeps growing and growing until it has taken over the entire body.

Liberalism must be eradicated to the greatest extent possible and Laws need to be enacted to keep Liberalism from growing and hopefully eventually fully exterminate it.


VINCE AUT MORIRE (Conquer or Die)
Re: Turn Them Over: #155146
11/10/2012 05:12 AM
11/10/2012 05:12 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Sniper_762X51:
Quote
[b]drjarhead
You will wait too long but at least you have some decent idea on enemy identification.
I feel that we should try to avoid War by first having Armed Demonstrations before the Legislature votes for it, but we should be geared up and prepared at the same time just in case the Enemy attempts any preemptive attacks.

And there is also this.

Every Patriot who is willing to Fight for their Rights, should get ready to Fight and the President Signing it should be the signal that it is Game On.

And we must take our Civilian Morality and leave it home, and become Warriors who's only purpose is to Win The War.

If we lose there will not be any Awards for Good Sportsmanship, we will just be losers and the surviving Freedom Fighters and our Wives and Older Children will die in the Camps and our Young Children's fate will be far worse then mere death for they will be given to Liberal Families to be reeducated and will become the next generation of Obama's Brown Shirts or Gestapo and when the Anti-Christ takes power our children will gladly receive the Mark of the Beast and their immortal Souls will be lost. [/b]
I have to ask you Sniper, do you think you could a war? I know few people who can... The assault weapon ban is great, I'm looking forward to it. Because then only criminals will have them, veterans, militiamen and patriots will be safe in jail. It seems a bit strange but bear with me, in a matter of weeks violent crime will sky rocket and the police can't protect anyone...

It will wake up more people & best of all if we need weapons the paramilitary police force will supply body armor, "assault weapons," handguns, APCs and medical supplies. Our LEOs might have SWAT training but these guys aren't trained to defend a location.

Now is a time to sit back and watch, let things take their course then when the attitude reaches a fevered pitch we strike.

Re: Turn Them Over: #155147
11/10/2012 06:19 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Sniper_762X51:
Quote
[b]drjarhead
You will wait too long but at least you have some decent idea on enemy identification.
I feel that we should try to avoid War by first having Armed Demonstrations before the Legislature votes for it, but we should be geared up and prepared at the same time just in case the Enemy attempts any preemptive attacks.

And there is also this.

Every Patriot who is willing to Fight for their Rights, should get ready to Fight and the President Signing it should be the signal that it is Game On.

And we must take our Civilian Morality and leave it home, and become Warriors who's only purpose is to Win The War.

If we lose there will not be any Awards for Good Sportsmanship, we will just be losers and the surviving Freedom Fighters and our Wives and Older Children will die in the Camps and our Young Children's fate will be far worse then mere death for they will be given to Liberal Families to be reeducated and will become the next generation of Obama's Brown Shirts or Gestapo and when the Anti-Christ takes power our children will gladly receive the Mark of the Beast and their immortal Souls will be lost. [/b]
Unfortunately, while we waited for perfect opportunities....

BOTH WINDOWS HAVE PASSED US BY


It's too late.
It's over.

I've been watching them move their pieces around for almost 50 years. You're 3 moves from checkmate and you can't stop it. I can't help it if none of you realize there are only three moves left.

Over


Don't think I'm giving up because I'm not. All that is left is defeat and death, however.

The alternative is enslavement.

You can each decide how you want to die. That's pretty much all you got.



The War for America
Fight Everywhere
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Re: Turn Them Over: #155148
11/10/2012 07:12 AM
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We get going, we cannot stop. We have to exterminate them down to the last jack booted thug, the last shyter lawyer, the last pedophile congresscritter, the last inbred psychopathic blueblood. Exterminate them, dispose of the bodies and wipe out every trace of their rule over us-their security grid, their lodges, their bunkers, their systems of control, their sacred places.

The Black Flag is the only way, to do any less will invite them to hide, bide their time and then our great grandchildren will have to deal with them.

We can win this, but cowering in some enclave in in your home praying they pass you buy and not force you into an Alamo or even worse, find out you really were a deluded coward is NOT the way. The enemy has been winning because they're devious, they take the initiative, they build alliances with what they term 'useful idiots'.

And no I ain't turning no guns over. Bullets on the other hand I'll be handing out at muzzle velocity.


Be your own leader

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Re: Turn Them Over: #155149
11/10/2012 07:14 AM
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I disagree with Doc... We (the militia movement in general) haven't done enough. You are right they are three moves from checkmate & we have been playing with a handycap from day 1.

But I don't agree there is nothing for us to do, we have to be/should have been proactive. We weren't and aren't... Thats our failure and we need to address it. Look we all die but few people ever live and given a choice in how I will die is simple... on my feet.

I however don't think the fight is over just because I'm bleeding on the floor. The militia has been so caught up trying to be effective on the battlefield but we forgot our logistics; intelligence, psychological/propaganda and counter-propaganda. I've watched one man beat corrupt cops, judges and even their criminal cohorts with next to no support and little equipment. If one person can do that because he didn't give up then, all of us can do the same.

They can take our lives but push them to the breaking point and its just blood in the water... We can't save all of the US but we can build a foundation for a new America, the borders might be smaller but our morals, our American dream is still intact.

Re: Turn Them Over: #155150
11/10/2012 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by J. Croft:
We get going, we cannot stop. We have to exterminate them down to the last jack booted thug, the last shyter lawyer, the last pedophile congresscritter, the last inbred psychopathic blueblood. Exterminate them, dispose of the bodies and wipe out every trace of their rule over us-their security grid, their lodges, their bunkers, their systems of control, their sacred places.

The Black Flag is the only way, to do any less will invite them to hide, bide their time and then our great grandchildren will have to deal with them.

We can win this, but cowering in some enclave in in your home praying they pass you buy and not force you into an Alamo or even worse, find out you really were a deluded coward is NOT the way. The enemy has been winning because they're devious, they take the initiative, they build alliances with what they term 'useful idiots'.

And no I ain't turning no guns over. Bullets on the other hand I'll be handing out at muzzle velocity.
Should've done that 45 years ago, or 20, or even 4.

We're out of time and surrounded.

Just as I've been bewildered at how no one else could see what they were doing back in the 60s and 70s, I wonder how no one can see how far gone it is now.

We had our chances.



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Re: Turn Them Over: #155151
11/10/2012 07:35 AM
11/10/2012 07:35 AM
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This is where the whole Tzun Tzu strategic concepts run smack dab into European and middle eastern culture.

The various wars in Europe and the Middle East would be condensed into an allegory like Chess. Various moves get made, threats, counter threats, eliminations of opposition pieces, then it becomes pretty obvious that one side or the other must capitulate or face elimination.

The game has rules, and if someone breaks those rules, then the victory is not recognized. What happens when someone wins by dishonorable means? Nobody with a real sense of honor recognizes the legitimacy of the victory.

What happens when the "legal system" goes through a dishonest process to justify, make then enforce new laws? Nobody with any sense of honor will recognize that as legitimate politics. Not even the people doing it, and that's why they don't want cameras in courtrooms and judges want to avoid public supervision. Why cops don't like getting photographed unless they are dealing with the absolute lowest common denominator types.

If you think that hard core Marxists coming in the guise of liberals is bad, wait until you have hard core Marxists coming in the guise of corporatism, or fascism, or even "democracy". In the worst years of the Soviet Union, the Marxists were actually functioning in the guise of a constitutional republic.

Liberty is like the slut who puts out for every guy who takes her out for a good time. Sure the moralist will criticize her for being slutty, for diminishing the value of the enslaved wife, but even he usually knows where to stash that contact info for a guaranteed good time.

Liberals in the purest sense, are not the problem, and in fact can be relatively pleasant to deal with and live around, except that they will act as a host and vector to all sorts of social diseases. It takes a special breed of enforcer to handle those diseases, but only an idiot or sicko decides that "there must be no more slut".

Liberty is high maintenance, and that's just the way Liberty is. Liberty needs people looking out for her, and occasionally taking that predatory AIDS infected crack pusher out in the back woods and leaving him there.

This cult of the police state is the problem, and is a problem regardless of whether or not they have hooked up with Liberty, the moralist, the communist, or any other type of system out there.

The issue though, is sometimes you just have to let Liberty figure out that she picked the wrong guy when she hooked up with the abusive jerk and told her real defenders to take a hike.

Maybe it's not the best analogy, but personally, I don't see liberty or "liberals" as really the problem, but they have become so intertwined with the police state and abuses in the system that this whole thing needs to crash a bit before people recognize what they were being set up for.


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Re: Turn Them Over: #155152
11/10/2012 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Asher:
I disagree with Doc... We (the militia movement in general) haven't done enough. You are right they are three moves from checkmate & we have been playing with a handycap from day 1.

But I don't agree there is nothing for us to do, we have to be/should have been proactive. We weren't and aren't... Thats our failure and we need to address it. Look we all die but few people ever live and given a choice in how I will die is simple... on my feet.

I however don't think the fight is over just because I'm bleeding on the floor. The militia has been so caught up trying to be effective on the battlefield but we forgot our logistics; intelligence, psychological/propaganda and counter-propaganda. I've watched one man beat corrupt cops, judges and even their criminal cohorts with next to no support and little equipment. If one person can do that because he didn't give up then, all of us can do the same.

They can take our lives but push them to the breaking point and its just blood in the water... We can't save all of the US but we can build a foundation for a new America, the borders might be smaller but our morals, our American dream is still intact.
The fact you still have some fight left in you doesn't mean you're not bleeding out on the floor.

Saving a small portion of the US for ourselves is suicide also. Either they will crush us, now concentrated and making their job easier, or they will surround us with turd world trash until we have even less chance than we have now.

The rules of the game have changed drastically and almost everyone fails to recognize that.

In 5 years, or 10 years, there will be millions more socialist immigrants within our borders. There will be 6" drones flying around watching you walk your doggie.

I'm just trying to lay it out for people. Better know what the cost is of a fight now and what it will be later.

Had our chances....



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Re: Turn Them Over: #155153
11/10/2012 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by Breacher:
This is where the whole Tzun Tzu strategic concepts run smack dab into European and middle eastern culture.
Very true. I've considered that myself but in the realm of taking 1000 years to gain our victory.
I don't see it though. The chinese of 2000 years ago didn't have the surveillance we have now. Nor did the Patriots who won the Revolutionary War.



Quote
Liberty is high maintenance, and that's just the way Liberty is. Liberty needs people looking out for her, and occasionally taking that predatory AIDS infected crack pusher out in the back woods and leaving him there.
Very true.
She's been ignored for far too long.



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Re: Turn Them Over: #155154
11/10/2012 07:57 AM
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I've been bewildered at how no one else could see what they were doing back in the 60s and 70s, I wonder how no one can see how far gone it is now.
I know the feeling.

Some folks just don't get it. they seem to prefer living in the state of denial.

There's not going to be some glorious patriotic revolution. The majority of the amerikan people have exactly the kind of government they want and deserve. These people prefer to be slaves and will turn on anyone who suggests they learn to fend for themselves.

During the faux election over 50% of the people didn't even bother to vote. Approximately 26% voted for democratic socialism, 24% voted for neocon corporatism and only 1% voted for liberty.

Quote
...cowering in some enclave in in your home praying they pass you buy and not force you into an Alamo or even worse, find out you really were a deluded coward is NOT the way. The enemy has been winning because they're devious, they take the initiative, they build alliances with what they term 'useful idiots'.
No one is suggesting that. The enclaves Breacher mentioned, and many are implementing, will be absolutely necessary in the near future if anyone who intends to fight plans on being able to survive long enough to make any difference whatsoever. A one man army wont accomplish squat and wont last 2 seconds.

This crap is going to come to a head faster than some think. So plan accordingly.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: Turn Them Over: #155155
11/10/2012 08:04 AM
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Those are functionally, not "our" borders and never were. "we" never had control of those borders and cannot possibly defend them. "We" need to establish real borders, borders of the enclaves with establishments of internal sovereignty, and enforce those against ALL invasions of that sovereignty.

As for operational areas, that's fine, I would not have much respect for the other ends of any national borders either. I never left my values (or hardware) behind when traveling south of the Rio Grande.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: Turn Them Over: #155156
11/10/2012 08:28 AM
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And what we can't make and arm our own drones? We can't turn that same technological advantage into a disadvantage... You talk about 45 years ago, well our soldier in Vuetnam were better trained then our soldiers now, they rely on technology & without it they are lost.

Fine fight a guerrilla war and watch the drones launch a hellfire missile into a residental nieghborhood in the USA. Film it and draw them to attack their, when our ow government is responsibile for murdering civilians more civilians will step up to fight.

The rules have changed and we need to change with them. We need to develop and update our SOPs to be a full spectrum military operation and when we act we need to hit multiple objectives the same time or in sequences. Use tactical deception ambush an enemy patrol to draw QRFs and IRFs away from different targets.

How do you handle a patrol being ambushed, the IRF being ambushed enroute, the QRF being ambushed enroute to support the IRF and fighting too close to engage with a drone all the while the real target is a mortar strike on the Drone control trailer & the chew hall (poison the food).

So now you have sick soldiers, crashed drones & dead drone pilots. How will you respond the next time a patrol gets ambushed? What bring in UN troops and 3rd world soldiers, thats a joke... undisciplined scum who operate with brutality? That just formed a couple new cells for cannon folder.

Re: Turn Them Over: #155157
11/10/2012 08:34 AM
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Modern American's are weak and sheltered "pets" they aren't 1/10 the men they were 50 years ago. All that technology and drones crap as made the modern American infantry a clean up crew for support-by-fire & air strikes.

So you use that against them, the 3rd world poor countries have better skills in some cases. While they don't have the technological tools are minimal.

Re: Turn Them Over: #155158
11/10/2012 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Breacher:
Those are functionally, not "our" borders and never were. "we" never had control of those borders and cannot possibly defend them. "We" need to establish real borders, borders of the enclaves with establishments of internal sovereignty, and enforce those against ALL invasions of that sovereignty.

As for operational areas, that's fine, I would not have much respect for the other ends of any national borders either. I never left my values (or hardware) behind when traveling south of the Rio Grande.
Sounds like asking for a few hellfires or a MOAB.

There goes the enclave.

50% of Amerikans would cheer.


Not totally opposed to the idea but I lean towards maximal dispersion and maximal mobility.

What is one guy walking around in the forest to a Predator drone?
Big difference between that and a squad or platoon.



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Re: Turn Them Over: #155159
11/10/2012 10:21 AM
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drjarhead,

Whats 5 guys in city of 30,000 to a predator drone? Most likely support elements will be in the rural areas and the combat units in cities. Hit a safe house with a hellfire and you kill how many non-combatants?

Re: Turn Them Over: #155160
11/10/2012 10:40 AM
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5 guys isn't an "enclave".

The point is dispersion and mobility.

5 guys in the city, IS dispersion.

There are certainly advantages to urban warfare given some of the technology advantages for potential foes.


Disadvantages are proximity and recognition, as always.

I'll take my chances in the forest. I know it very well. The advantage may not be huge but it an advantage I am comfortable with.



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Re: Turn Them Over: #155161
11/10/2012 11:18 AM
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5 guys acting as a guerrilla combat force is all you need to create an "enclave." You don't create an enclave by holding ground and setting up green zone; you create an enclave by creating an area were socio-political dynamic allows for popular support.

Those supporting non-combatants will become a observers, feed you intelligence, let you sleep on their floor, & allow you a few moments warning to Retreat when the enemy advances. I'm comfortable anywhere; in the city, in the suburbs or in the woods. The biggest sin in combat is being predictablethe US Army and Rednecks have the same philosophy. Adapt & Over come for the Former and Get-er Done for the latter. So Getter Done adapt & Over Come... Hey I just had T-Shirt Idea... lol

Re: Turn Them Over: #155162
11/10/2012 11:24 AM
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Okay. I was under the impression we were talking about something different.



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Re: Turn Them Over: #155163
11/14/2012 01:29 AM
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I might reflect here the words of Patrick Henry.

http://youtu.be/iEOets_L7vg


"Guard well the words you use, for they can be the keys to your freedom or the manacles of your slavery." - me
Re: Turn Them Over: #155164
11/14/2012 02:50 AM
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Might be a good idea to start preparing in earnest.

Now is the time to plant some caches.
Have just your wife's name listed on the house.
Buy a dependable older model car or truck. Keep it stock so it doesn't stick out.
Develope a method of secure communication
Ammo, Buy it cheap and stack it deep.
Start reloading. Get good at it!
cache food in several secure locations.


Rudy out
"Once the pin is pulled, Mr. Handgrenade is no longer our friend."
Re: Turn Them Over: #155165
11/14/2012 07:00 AM
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The thing that may save a Patriot's ass the most may be the alliances he's able to cultivate. Which is tricky when most of the population has been effectively brainwashed into thinking said Patriot is a domestic terrorist but there is a growing number that have been removed from the comfort zone necessary for the enemy's conditioning to stay effective and have awakened. They may still have resources or they may be out on the street homeless but if they got knowledge, skills or even simply willing to straw purchase...


Be your own leader

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Re: Turn Them Over: #155166
11/14/2012 10:25 AM
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The enclaves are mainly for sorting our your people and resources before anything would go hot. They are mainly for safety, security and economic development under conditions where if you are dispersed, you are subject to prejudice, extreme hostile surveillance, and a lack of proximity to a support network with appropriate backup. Local conditions, enemy activity, resources and priorities will determine whether or not any particular enclave is to be evacuated or defended, but not having enclaves in the first place is straight up suicide.

Even with high levels of mobility, you are basically still talking about shifting your population between relatively safe ground.

It is a rhetorical question over what level of resources an enemy is going to be able or willing to bring to bear on any particular target but there are plenty of historical references on how systems of enclaves work.

The enclaves are also an inevitable common sense thing, and the main functional difference between the enclaves and the squalor of refugee camps is prior preparation and resources. Being spread out among an enemy population is no way to raise a family or look out for your noncombatants.

Pleas before anyone continues to try and argue against this concept, look at how things went down in the Balkans and how it is now. Videos like this are dirt common:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnAGkg0XVng&feature=related

Stuff like those murders happens to people on the edges of the enclave, or when they stay in enemy turf thinking they have a little live and let live deal going on. Even in the more closely monitored areas, public services, economic opportunities and other factors always get rationed in favor of the dominant party.

A lot of those Serb enclaves had to be evacuated under threat of NATO bombing and most of the rest were disarmed again, under the threat of NATO bombing, but not so much the threat of bombing of the enclaves themselves, but the nation (Serbia) that had been assisting the enclaves in their struggle against encirclement and domination by the Al Queda host population among nominally Muslim Albania.

The issue at the fall of Communism there was a great big race to loot government facilities and obtain weapons, and the fact that the central government had been nominally suppressing various ethnic hatreds for a long time, except even for that long time, it had been much more intolerant of ethnic Serb reprisals than Albanian "Muslim" crime. That Kosovo-Albanian-Swiss alliance is what had been a primary heron pipeline into Europe for Taliban controlled heroin. With the heroin trade went Islamo-facist influence except they were dealing with fairly corrupt people to begin with. So in proving their faith, they spend more time torching churches (and Christians) rather than going for that devout moderate Islamic faith thing.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: Turn Them Over: #155167
11/27/2012 02:42 AM
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Black Friday Gun Sales Hit New Record High


Overwhelming demand crashes FBI background check center

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
November 27, 2012

Black Friday gun sales hit an all time record high last week with demand for new firearms so overwhelming that it caused outages at the FBI background check center on two separate occasions.
Black Friday Gun Sales Hit New Record High 271112guns

Fueled by fears that the Obama administration will go after gun rights during a lame duck term, the FBI reported 154,873 background check requests on Friday – a 20 per cent increase on last year’s record total of 129,166 checks.

The number of guns sold could actually be double or more that figure because only one background check is recorded per sale even if buyers purchase multiple firearms.

“With the recent election, some people are making buying decisions just in case something (new law) happens,” Don Gallardo, manager of Shooter’s World in Phoenix, told USA Today.

Gun stores noted that first time gun owners and women represented a significant number of those purchasing firearms on Black Friday.

Gun sales were so brisk that the FBI’s Instant Background Check center was overwhelmed with the volume of requests and crashed on two separate occasions. Some even saw the outages as an insidious way of providing “anti-gunners a clue about how to suspend the Second Amendment.”

President Obama indicated during the presidential debates that he would pursue an assault weapons ban, which second amendment activists see as merely the first step towards wider gun control regulation.

Obama also indicated that he would attempt to eviscerate the right to keep and bear arms during a White House meeting with gun control advocate Sarah Brady last year. During the meeting, Obama told Brady he was working “under the radar” on new gun control policy. Brady added that Obama assured her gun control was “very much on his agenda.”

But it’s not just Obama’s conduct on the domestic front that has second amendment activists concerned. The Obama administration’s willingness to sign up to a United Nations global arms treaty which threatens to outlaw guns in the U.S. is also driving firearms sales.

Final discussions on the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) are set to take place in March next year. The New American notes that, “Section III, Paragraphs 7 and 8 of the Programme of Action mandate that if a member state cannot get rid of privately owned small arms legislatively, then the control of “customs, police, intelligence, and arms control” will be placed under the power of a board of UN bureaucrats operating out of the UN Office for Disarmament Affairs,” opening the door to UN peacekeeping forces to disarm American citizens.


UN Global Gun Ban Flimflam


Joe Wolverton, II, J.D.
New American
November 27, 2012

On November 7, the First Committee of the United Nations General Assembly voted 157-0(with 18 abstentions) in favor of Resolution L.11 that will finalize the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) in March 2013.

China, the United Kingdom, and Germany all voted to move the historic measure toward passage.

As we have reported, when the treaty was being deliberated in July, the United States was the only obstacle preventing the global arms control regulations from being imposed on the world.

Miraculously, however, all the points of the agreement Secretary Clinton found so distasteful in the summer were made so much more palatable after President Obama’s reelection, and every single attack on the right to bear arms remains in the version of the treaty approved on November 7.

Within hours of his securing his reelection, President Obama placed a late night call to the U.S. United Nations delegation ordering them to vote in favor of a passage of L.11.

As soon as news of the U.S. policy 180 was confirmed, a new round of negotiations on the treaty was scheduled for March 18-28 at the UN headquarters in New York City.

That was immediately followed by a press release sent out early the next morning from the United Nations General Assembly’s First Committee proclaiming the good news of President Obama’s go-ahead for the gun grab and setting the agenda for the next gun control conference.

Also kindling discussion among delegations was a draft resolution aimed at building on the progress made toward the adoption of a strong, balanced and effective arms trade treaty. That text would decide to convene the “Final United Nations Conference” for the creation of such a treaty in March 2013.

Also by that resolution, the draft text of the treaty submitted by the conference’s president on July 26 would be the basis for future work, without prejudice to the right of delegations to put forward additional proposals on that text.

The U.S. government was now placing its full weight behind convening a “Final United Nations Conference” for the proposal of a treaty imposing worldwide gun control regulations.

In July, 51 senators sent a letter to President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton encouraging them to “not only to uphold our country’s constitutional protections of civilian firearms ownership, but to ensure — if necessary, by breaking consensus at the July conference — that the treaty will explicitly recognize the legitimacy of lawful activities associated with firearms, including but not limited to the right of self-defense.”

The failure to pass an acceptable version of the treaty in July is in the president’s rearview mirror, however, as Reuters reports that “adoption of a strong, balanced and effective Arms Trade Treaty” could be imminent.

Reuters quotes Brian Wood of Amnesty International:

After today’s resounding vote, if the larger arms trading countries show real political will in the negotiations, we’re only months away from securing a new global deal that has the potential to stop weapons reaching those who seriously abuse human rights.

The definition of an “abuse” of “human rights” will be left up to a coterie of internationalist bureaucrats who will be neither accountable to nor elected by citizens of the United States.

With good reason, then, gun rights advocates oppose approval of this treaty.

After all, it does seem more than a little incongruous that a nation that places such a high value on gun ownership that it enshrined it in its Bill of Rights participates in an organization that opposes gun ownership so staunchly that it has an Office for Disarmament Affairs. An office, by the way, that the U.S. Deputy Director, Office of Weapons Removal and Abatement, Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, Steven Costner, proudly announced would be moving from Geneva to New York City.

Lest anyone believe the U.S. delegation official’s promise to Reuters that “we will not accept any treaty that infringes on the constitutional rights of our citizens to bear arms,” consider the fact that a report issued after the conclusion of the last Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) conference in July listed the goal of the agreement to be UN control of the “manufacture, control, trafficking, circulation, brokering and trade, as well as tracing, finance, collection and destruction of small arms and light weapons.”

That is a very comprehensive attack on “all aspects” of gun trade and ownership. Notably, the phrase “in all aspects” occurs 38 times in the draft of the ATT. The United Nations will control the purchase of guns and ammo, the possession of guns and ammo, and any guns and ammo not willingly surrendered to the UN will be tracked, seized, and destroyed.

A question that must be considered is what the UN will consider “adequate laws.” Will the globalists at the UN consider the Second Amendment’s guarantee of the right to keep and bear arms without infringement to be a sufficient control on gun ownership?

The effort at eradication of private gun ownership is more insidious than it appears, however. On page 25 of the 1997 UN Secretary General’s Report on Criminal Justice Reform and Strengthening Legal Institutions Measure to Regulate Firearms (of which the United States was a signatory), a part of the regulations agreed to by the United States is the administering of a psychological test before a person is cleared to buy ammunition.

Apparently, the UN recognizes that without ammunition a gun is no more than a club, so in order to effectively disarm a population, the UN does not need to seize all the weapons; it merely has to prevent purchase of ammunition.

How does the ATT (and the Programme of Action that undergirds it) propose to enforce this anti-gun agenda?

Section III, Paragraphs 7 and 8 of the Programme of Action mandate that if a member state cannot get rid of privately owned small arms legislatively, then the control of “customs, police, intelligence, and arms control” will be placed under the power of a board of UN bureaucrats operating out of the UN Office for Disarmament Affairs.

This provision includes the deployment of UN peacekeeping forces in a member state to seize and destroy “weapons stockpiles.”

Again, no definition of stockpile, but by that time it will be too late to make that argument.

In order to assist these blue-helmets and their disarmament overlords in their search and seizure of this ammunition, Section III, Paragraph 10 mandates that member states develop technology to improve the UN’s ability to detect stockpiles of ammo and arms.

This will be made much easier when the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) gets its hands on the portable invisible lasers developed by Genia Laboratories (a company created by CIA offshoot In-Q-Tel) that can detect even trace amounts of gun powder from over 50 yards away. The laser reportedly can penetrate walls, glass, and metal. DHS is scheduled to take possession of the devices before the end of the year, according to testimony presented on Capitol Hill late last year.

The UN’s effort to collect ammo from those they wish to oppress (a disarmed society is a slave society) is nothing new. The “shot heard ’round the world” on Lexington Green in 1775 was fired because British troops planned to seize the ammunition stockpile stored outside of Lexington.

Perhaps our reporting on the president’s late-night call putting the wheels of global gun control in motion will awaken modern Americans to the threat to our sacred Second Amendment rights. After all, it was a late night call that roused sleepy colonists in defense of their right to bear arms, as well. This time, however, it is not the British who are coming for our guns and ammunition, but it is the United Nations and agents of our own federal government.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: Turn Them Over: #155168
01/17/2013 03:27 PM
01/17/2013 03:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 608
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noname762 Offline
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noname762  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 608
behind enemy lines
Well shoot I wanted to make this Post a NEW TOPIC but for some weird reason I can't.

Mods feel free to move it if necessary.


Just got the word 8 minutes ago. Obummer is now saying ALL US MD's are to inquire as to whether or not the patient owns firearms and if so HOW MANY?

If you answer that you DO own fire sticks they will ask about Storage and so on. Elsewhere in this article references as to a patient's mental health are mentioned. Fellow Patriots Beware.


Four plus years ago while filling out a new form at a flagged clinic was the question do I own firearms? I left it blank as tho I had not seen it. I wasn't pushed for an answer. Had I been asked a simple 'it's none of your business' would be my reply.

This clinic has a sign posted at Main Entrance that specifies No Weapons Allowed. It shows a semi auto pistol in a red circle with a red slash thru the pistol. The first time I saw it I just keep right on truckin' inside. The next time I went in my piece was in my vehicle.

I haven't been back.


Grass fed Beef..it's what's fer supper July 4th.
Re: Turn Them Over: #155169
01/17/2013 03:52 PM
01/17/2013 03:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 608
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noname762 Offline
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noname762  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 608
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I don't know about you guys but if I was in the market for another smokepole there ain't no way in Hell I make a purchase with a 4473 included.


Grass fed Beef..it's what's fer supper July 4th.
Re: Turn Them Over: #155170
01/17/2013 05:14 PM
01/17/2013 05:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 381
San Antonio, TX
Mexneck Offline
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Mexneck  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 381
San Antonio, TX
Don't forget schools. They start their twisted indoctrination in the schools. I have already had a conversation with the principal regarding a teacher preaching gun control in class. If they were really interested in teaching kids about guns then why don't they get the NRA to have the Eddie Eagle program mandatory in all schools? Oh, because that would be reasonable.


Well, this is it.

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