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"Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155968
04/04/2013 05:15 AM
04/04/2013 05:15 AM
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Mike Riggs[/b] has the tragic (and infuriating) story of a child-abduction case now taking shape. Yesterday, Joshua Hakken allegedly tied up his mother-in-law with zip ties and "kidnapped" the couple's two sons, Cole and Chase, two and four years old. Law enforcement authorities in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and Louisiana are now looking for Joshua and his wife, Sharyn. Sharyn's mother was given custody of the two children after Joshua's 2012 marijuana arrest.

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It's been 24 hours since Joshua Hakken allegedly broke into his mother-and-law's house in Tampa, tied her up with zip ties, and left with his sons Cole and Chase--who are two and four years old--in his mother-in-law's car. Florida law enforcement authorities say the "anti-government" couple of Joshua and Sharyn Hakken are now on the run with Cole and Chase in tow. Law enforcement agencies in Georgia, Alabama, and Louisiana have all issued child abduction alerts, as well as disseminated pictures of the Hakken family.

Over the course of those 24 hours, we've learned a thing or two about the Hakkens from law enforcement and the media. The story taking shape is both tragic and infuriating, as it appears from an interview with officials in Louisiana that the couple's problems do indeed stem from Joshua Hakken's 2012 marijuana arrest.

Here's what we know at this point about the chain of events that led the Hakkens to "abduct" their own children:

Joshua Hakken, an engineer from Tampa, Florida, was arrested at an "anti-government rally" in a hotel in Slidell, Louisiana, on June 17, 2012; and charged with "Possession of Marijuana, Possession of Drug Paraphernalia and Possession of a controlled dangerous substance in the presence of a minor."
According to Det. Daniel Seuzeneau, the Slidell police officer who arrested Joshua Hakken, ”He was under the influence of narcotics and also had narcotics inside his hotel room and he was speaking kind of out of his mind a little bit.”
Seuzeneau says that Department of Children and Family Services was called, the kids were taken, and Hakken was jailed for "maybe a week or so but not very long.”
The children were placed in temporary foster care in Louisiana.
Allegedly armed with a firearm, Joshua Hakken tried to "abduct" his children from the foster care facility, and then left when he could not get inside.
[b]According to multiple media outlets, a judge in Louisiana gave permanent custody of the Hakken children to Sharyn Hakken's mother in Tampa on Tuesday of this week.
On Wednesday, Joshua Hakken broke into his mother-in-law's house shortly after her husband had gone to work, restrained her with zip ties, and left with the kids. Several hours later, his mother-in-law broke free and called the police.
The Amber Alert issued by Hillsborough County (Florida) Sheriffs Department says the Hakkens "are anti-government," have "attempted a previous abduction at gun point in Louisiana," and "are considered armed and dangerous."
Joshua Hakken is facing two counts of kidnapping, two counts of interference in child custody, two counts of child neglect, one count of false imprisonment, burglary with a battery, and grand theft auto. If he was armed when any of that happened, Florida's 10-20-Life law could come into play.

While I haven't been able to figure out anything about the "anti-government" rally Hakken was allegedly attending in Slidell, or what happened between June 2012 and Wednesday of this week, his and his wife's political beliefs are hardly the danger that law enforcement officials are making them out to be. From The Tampa Bay Times:

Quote
In February 2012, someone writing as "SailingBull" posted to the website for Adam vs. The Man, a forum "about challenging authority, sticking it to the man, and giving the millennial generation a voice."

"My name is Joshua Hakken," he wrote. "I am a father, a registered professional mechanical engineer and a veteran of the USAF. I am absolutely devoted to life, liberty, the rights of the individual and the Constitution of the United States of America. "

After saying that he had noticed that "things here in Florida have not added up for quite some time," he concluded, "in these crazy times, maintaining open communication lines for ideas, observations and news is absolutely crucial if the 'good guys' are to be successful in surviving to maintain the fight of ideas."
That same story includes several quotes from neighbors about how normal and pleasant the Hakkens are, save for a rather careless habit of smoking pot in their driveway.
Follow the link for more links to news stories.

I don't know anything about the Hakkens. Perhaps they really are a danger to their children. But from what I've seen so far, the main problem with the Hakkens seems to be their "anti-government" views.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155969
04/04/2013 11:49 AM
04/04/2013 11:49 AM
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Smells like bullshit to me.

Waiting for the rest of the story.



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Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155970
04/04/2013 04:01 PM
04/04/2013 04:01 PM
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The Slidell, Louisiana police department has released this press release:

Quote
In June of 2012, Joshua and Sharon Hakken were staying at a local hotel in Slidell. The Slidell Police Department was called in reference to a disturbance involving Mr. and Mrs. Hakken. When police arrived, both Mr. and Mrs. Hakken were acting in a bizarre manner that alarmed officers. They were talking about “completing their ultimate journey” and were traveling across the country to “take a journey to the Armageddon”. Let it be noted that both of their children were present in the hotel room at the time.

Based off their behavior, and the fact that narcotics and weapons were located inside of the hotel room, officers contacted the Office of Child Services (OCS). OCS determined that the children were in danger and needed to be taken into custody by the State of Louisiana and temporarily placed in a foster home. Mr. Hakken was placed under arrest for Possession of Marijuana, Possession of Drug Paraphernalia, and the Use of a Controlled and Dangerous Substance in the Presence of Minors. Officers also took custody of several weapons for safe keeping.

Approximately two weeks later, Slidell Police were notified that Mr. Hakken had shown up to the foster family home (somewhere in Hammond, LA) with a firearm demanding the return of his children. The foster parents called 911, and Mr. Hakken fled without his children. We have heard nothing until yesterday. Slidell Police was contacted by the FBI and the authorities from Florida to inform us about the kidnapping. They requested any and all information that we had on the Hakken’s.
They also deny that he was arrested at some sort of anti-government rally, and they don't know where that story came from.

So, either he's "anti-government," or he's in some sort of death cult. Or both. Or neither. Since he once apparently described himself as an atheist, it's hard to buy that "death cult" story either.

Onward and upward,
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Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155971
04/05/2013 01:17 AM
04/05/2013 01:17 AM
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So, either he's "anti-government," or he's in some sort of death cult. Or both. Or neither. Since he once apparently described himself as an atheist, it's hard to buy that "death cult" story either.
-------------------------------------------------
Or perhaps he is just another of many who have had their families taken by over zealious JBTs who are still trying to justify and protect their jobs at someone else's expense.
The question we ask ourselves each time is should we get involved and help or sit back and watch in case we are wrong.
Do we help and maybe get smeared for helping those kids , or wait and wish we had.

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155972
04/05/2013 05:58 AM
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Authorities now believe Joshua Hakken took his family into the Gulf of Mexico aboard a sailboat.

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Hillsborough deputies say the father who abducted his two non-custodial children in Tampa was last seen taking his family into the Gulf of Mexico aboard a sailboat.

The information comes shortly after Joshua Hakken's pickup truck was discovered in a Madeira Beach parking garage. Investigators believe Hakken took 4-year-old Cole and 2-year-old Chase onto a 25-foot sailboat, hours after abducting them from their grandmother's home early on Wednesday morning.

The Sheriff's Office says it is not clear what direction the boat went after leaving the Johns Pass area, nor do they know if the boat was still on the water during Thursday's stormy weather.

The boat's description is as follows:

Quote
1972 Morgan 25M (25 foot) sailboat
Blue bimini top, white mainsail with blue trim, boat deck and cabin are white
Hull is blue with "Salty" and a paw print in white on both sides with a white stripe near water line
The stern has "St. Petersburg" in white lettering
Florida Boat Registration #FL3717BK, HUL #M252099
Possibly a yellow horseshoe life preserver on deck
Deputies say Joshua Hakken took his kids just one day after he and his wife lost custody.

"He entered the residence, where he tied up the grandmother and then removed the children," said Corporal Kevin Bodie, a case detective with the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.

It happened in what neighbors describe as a quiet neighborhood just as parents were taking their children to school.

"My heart breaks, my heart beaks for everybody in the family, but particularly for those two little boys," said Carla Bolling, who saw all the activity around the grandmother's home on Shady Shores Drive in Tampa.

Hakken's wife Sharyn is also believed to be accompanying them. Investigators are not sure if she was part of the kidnapping plot or a victim.

"We do feel that they are in danger due to the nature, the means where they were taken," said Corporal Bodie.

A warrant is out for Joshua Hakken's arrest on two counts of kidnapping, two counts of child neglect, two counts of false imprisonment, one count of burglary with batter, and one count of grand theft auto.

The children were originally removed from Hakken's custody last year in Louisiana following multiple drug charges. While in foster care, Joshua Hakken allegedly showed up at the foster care facility waving a gun and began beating on the front door. He fled the scene without his children after he was unable to enter the secured facility.

Anyone with any information regarding the location of these children are asked to immediately dial 9-1-1 or call the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office at 813-247-8200. Both parents are considered armed and dangerous.
Mr. Hakken seems to have been a frequent poster at this website under the name "SailingBull."

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155973
04/05/2013 07:33 AM
04/05/2013 07:33 AM
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One of the objectives to implement marxism is to remove children from their mothers and families as early as possible. We're talking shortly after birth.

Nursery school and kindergarten are examples of the government removing children from the mother for indoctrination by age 5 or earlier. I can remember Betty Freidan telling us how good it would be that government provides child services so women could work.

Conspiracy? What conspiracy? Nothing to see here, now move along...


"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always Bad Men." Lord Actin 1887

I fear we live in evil times...
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155974
04/05/2013 08:56 AM
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Joshua Hakken\'s truck has been located in John\'s Pass Parking Garage in Madeira Beach, Florida.

Quote
Detectives have found a car belonging to Joshua Hakken, a Florida man who is believed to have kidnapped his two young boys from their maternal grandparents' Florida home after the grandmother was tied up Wednesday, CBS affiliate WTSP reports.

The 2006 GMC pickup truck was found abandoned in the John's Pass Parking Garage, authorities announced Thursday night, according to the station. John's Pass is a fishing village in Madeira Beach.

Detectives believe the 35-year-old Hakken was using the truck to transport his two sons, 4-year-old Cole Hakken and 2-year-old Chase Hakken, after he kidnapped them from their grandmother's home early Wednesday morning, the station reports.

Investigators had to wait for a search warrant before they were allowed inside the truck. When they obtained the warrant, Hillsborough forensics crews reportedly dusted for fingerprints and took photos at the scene.

The truck was then transported to Hillsborough County, where processing of evidence will continue.

The Tampa Bay Times reports that Joshua Hakken lost custody of his sons last year after a drug possession arrest in Louisiana, and that authorities said he later tried to take them from a foster home at gunpoint. The newspaper said the children had been living with their grandparents since last year, and that the Hakkens were informed Tuesday by a Louisiana court that they'd been stripped of their parental rights.

An initial press release identified Joshua Hakken and the children's mother, 34-year-old Sharyn Patricia Hakken, as suspects in the abduction. The news release said "both suspects are anti-government and have attempted a previous abduction at gunpoint in Louisiana."

The investigation and search for the children is ongoing.
I notice they're still using that "anti-government" line.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155975
04/05/2013 03:23 PM
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I just don't understand the country where I live.

We used to believe in the positive influence of a nuclear family with one mom and one dad. Thousands of years of marriage within many societies seems to focus on the mom and dad nuclear family.

A number of studies from the 50's, 60's and 70's demonstrated that a family with one mom and one dad in the same household led to more success economically and less criminal activity by the children.
During the 90's, the media started talking about how a family with a single family was equivalent to a nuclear family of one mom and one dad. They liked to point out that 70% of marriages ended in divorce, which was relatively new beginning with the late 60's and early 70's. Soon homosexual mate families were not only equivalent but now seem to be advocated in the media, while normal heterosexual families seemed more abnormal with the divorce rate.

Now our society seems to believe that a family of one mom and one dad is neither a priority nor of value. Smoke pot and lose your children. The last three guys occupying the WH probably would lose their kids under similar application of "law."

I don't like this progress that the left keeps pushing. I dislike it even more when it comes from the right, which should recognize tyranny better.


"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always Bad Men." Lord Actin 1887

I fear we live in evil times...
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155976
04/05/2013 05:23 PM
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They're calling them anti-government because they attended a tea party rally.

It's also been reported that both parents are well educated "engineers".


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155977
04/06/2013 03:42 AM
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According to the grandmother, Joshua and Sharyn Hakken had previously planned suicide , but then realized there was "another way out." It's believed that all four of them were alive when the sailboat set sail on Wednesday.

Quote
...Hauser also stated that when Joshua left her house Wednesday morning he stated, "phase one completed, ready for phase two."

Law enforcement has now taken their search for the missing family of four to the Gulf of Mexico. It is believed that the family set sail Wednesday and video captured all alive and onboard. Officers found the family's car parked in a garage near John's Pass in Madeira Beach Thursday night.

It is unclear if the Hakkens took their cell phones with them because when investigators tried to do an emergency trap and trace the phones were shut off.

Other items found at the Hakken home included something eerie, a funeral ad found in the family office.
Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155978
04/07/2013 01:45 PM
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Nothing new for a couple days now. Clearly, Joshua Hakken had his "exit strategy" worked out. What is not clear is just what his plans are, and that worries me.

Several years ago, a "good Christian family man" here in Tulsa lost his family's saving gambling. He didn't have the heart to tell his wife and two daughters that he lost all of their money, so he murdered them instead. I sure hope this doesn't turn out to be like that.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155979
04/07/2013 02:07 PM
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Since the wife and father seemed to be together and left on perhaps a sailboat, I would assume that suicide was not the plan despite the news story. At least we should pray for the best.


"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always Bad Men." Lord Actin 1887

I fear we live in evil times...
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155980
04/08/2013 12:19 AM
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Then again perhaps his total plan was simply to get his kids back and drop off the grid and raise them the way he was supposed to.

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155981
04/08/2013 04:05 AM
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That's what I thought at first, and I think I still mostly do, but that "anti-government" extremist angle the media is still promoting simply isn't true. He apparently attended a Tea party rally. That hardly makes him "anti-government."

He does appear to have been a doper, though. As everyone here knows by now, I think drugs should be re-legalized. Dopers should not be thrown in jail just because they're dopers. But that doesn't mean I have to like dopers. The truth is, I'd rather not have anything to do with them.

You sort of have to read between the lines of the news stories to find what's troubling me.

First, the arrest at the hotel in Slidell, Louisiana. Most usually, hotels don't like to involve the police. If they find someone in their hotel is doing drugs, they evict them (and usually charge them an exorbitant "cleaning fee" for cleaning up their room). In this case, police had to be called, and the behavior of the Hakkens seems to have been, well, bizarre. They were talking about Armageddon, and taking "the ultimate journey."

Secondly, the grandmother seems to have some evidence of unusual behavior, as well. What that means, no one is talking about.

Whatever the facts turn out to be, this case is troubling. I'm trying to find more information on this, so stay tuned.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155982
04/08/2013 04:28 PM
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The Hakken family has arrived in Cuba. That seems like a pretty unlikely destination for an "anti-government" couple.

Quote
A Florida couple suspected of kidnapping their two sons from the woman's parents are in Cuba, authorities said Monday.

The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office received information that the Hakken family had arrived on the island nation, according to a news release. Investigators say they're working with the FBI and the U.S. State Department to verify their reports.

It wasn't immediately clear what, if anything, authorities could do to retrieve the family from Cuba.

A State Department official said the department is aware of the case and is in contact with local authorities. The official said a high priority is the welfare of U.S. citizens overseas, especially children "who are our most vulnerable citizens."

"The Department works with parents and foreign governments to resolve these difficult cases," the official said....
Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155983
04/08/2013 05:56 PM
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Maybe Elian Gonzales revenge.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155984
04/09/2013 04:02 AM
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The State Department has issued this statement:

Quote
The U.S. Interest Section is aware of this case and is in contact with local authorities to get more information. U.S. officials are providing all appropriate assistance to the family. Because of privacy reasons, we are unable to provide any additional information. One of the Department's highest priorities is the welfare of U.S. citizens overseas. This is particularly true for children, who are our most vulnerable citizens. The Department works with parents and foreign governments to resolve these difficult cases.
So, it looks like Joshua Hakken and his wife thought out their escape carefully, and carried it through to fruition. Cuba is not exactly the choice I would have made, but...

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155985
04/09/2013 05:35 AM
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A CNN report seems to confirm that the Hakkens have arrived in Cuba.

Quote
... A man on a boat at a Havana marina told CNN's Patrick Oppmann he is Josh Hakken, the U.S. man accused of kidnapping his sons and sailing them to Cuba.
He declined to answer questions, and Cuban security asked a CNN reporter to leave.

The man, who fit Hakken's description, was with a woman who fits the description of his wife. Both were aboard a blue sailboat named "Salty." The CNN reporter also saw one child on the boat.

Hakken, a Louisiana man who lost custody of his two young sons, is accused of abducting them, together with his wife, according to a Florida sheriff's department.
The phrase "out of the frying pan, and into the fire" immediately comes to mind.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155986
04/09/2013 07:29 AM
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I think he made a smart play given the circumstances. The Cubans would make the play to protect them just to spite the US Government and have a bargaining chip at the UN when someone complains about their own civil rights violations.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155987
04/09/2013 07:57 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Breacher:
I think he made a smart play given the circumstances. The Cubans would make the play to protect them just to spite the US Government and have a bargaining chip at the UN when someone complains about their own civil rights violations.
Yeah, if their only goal was to get their children back, it worked. And maybe the Cubans will even grant them certain privileges the ordinary Cubans don't get, just for propaganda purposes, so it was probably a smart move. And since he's apparently a mechanical engineer, there's undoubtedly no shortage of work for him to do. But personally, Cuba would not have been my first choice, or even in the top ten.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155988
04/09/2013 08:29 AM
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Cuba is not on my list of places however:
1) They probably won't get extradited from Cuba
2) The parents aren't in jail
3) Their family is together
4) The parents probably can get work
5) The weather is not terrible
6) There is trade and tourism with many other countries
7) They could sail there whereas other options might be more dangerous and with extradition challenges


"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always Bad Men." Lord Actin 1887

I fear we live in evil times...
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155989
04/09/2013 03:43 PM
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Cuba has announced they will turn the Hakkens over to the United States.

Quote
...Foreign Ministry official Johana Tablada told The Associated Press in a written statement Tuesday that Cuba had informed U.S. authorities of the country's decision to turn over Joshua Michael Hakken, his wife Sharyn and their two young boys. She did not say when the handover would occur....
If anyone else had thoughts of fleeing to Cuba in times of trouble, you might want to rethink those plans. mad

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155990
04/09/2013 05:46 PM
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Well that does it then, consider the Cuban government to be the enemy of the movement and draft an official statement to that effect.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155991
04/09/2013 05:58 PM
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It's hard to believe they would treat a dope-head libertarian gun-nut that badly. :rolleyes:

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155992
04/10/2013 03:29 AM
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Joshua and Sharyn Hakken are in the Hillsborough County Jail today. And their two sons are back with their grandmother. The parents are charged with kidnapping, child neglect, and interference with custody. I suspect other charges will be added later related to the home invasion and auto theft.

Quote
A Florida couple accused of kidnapping their two young sons and fleeing by boat to Cuba were handed over to the United States and their children were returned to the maternal grandparents who have official custody, authorities said Wednesday.

Continue reading

Joshua Michael Hakken and his wife, Sharyn, were being held at the Hillsborough County Jail on a number of charges including kidnapping, child neglect and interference with custody, the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office said on its website.

U.S. authorities say Hakken kidnapped his sons, 4-year-old Cole and 2-year-old Chase, from his mother-in-law's house north of Tampa, Florida. The boys' grandparents were granted permanent custody of the boys last week.

"Our grandchildren are safe," the grandfather, Bob Hauser, told a news conference with the sheriff's office late Tuesday. "We had an opportunity to talk with them before they left Cuba."

Bob and his wife, Patricia Hauser, asked the news media to give them at least 24 hours alone with the boys, the sheriff's department said in a statement. They planned to make a public statement possibly by Thursday.

Cuba tipped the State Department off to the Hakkens' presence Sunday, and from that moment "diplomatic contact has been exchanged and a professional and constant communication has been maintained," Cuban Foreign Ministry official Johana Tablada said in a statement.

An AP reporter spotted the couple and the children beside their boat at the Hemingway Marina in Havana on Tuesday. A man who resembled photographs of Joshua Michael Hakken yelled out "Stop! Stay back!" as the reporter approached, but there was no outward sign of tension or distress between the family members.

The family showed no sign they knew a decision about their fate had been made. The four strolled by an outdoor restaurant as security officials kept reporters at a distance. The youngest child was seated in a stroller and the elder boy sat down on a curb....
Never trust a government to do the right thing. Not even a despotic communist one.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155993
04/10/2013 04:58 AM
04/10/2013 04:58 AM
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Joshua Hakken has also been charged with false imprisonment. His bond is set at $154,000. The grandparents, who now have custody of the children, plan to make a statement tomorrow, which hopefully will shed a little more light on this case.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155994
04/10/2013 05:14 AM
04/10/2013 05:14 AM
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It used to be that one could leave a messed up state to escape a state government that had run amuck. Now one can't even leave this country to escape tyranny. I am truly sorry for the Hakken family. The cries for the safety of children and the greater good stomped all over freedom and self-defined destiny.

I'm not afraid of our government, as a government is really only a sheet of paper that defines how the system works. The issue is the corruption and evil of our government's leadership that pervades the system.

We now have millions of US citizens that went to bed as non-criminals one night, and woke up the next day as newly defined criminals according to NY, Connecticut and Colorado state laws for doing nothing more than waking up when the sun came up. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? What happened to the constitution and the bill of rights?

I just don't know how or if we can return our constitutional republican government to the founding principles where all men are free with unalienable rights given by god.

I'm afraid that we live in evil times and the world is coming here to divy up the spoils...


"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always Bad Men." Lord Actin 1887

I fear we live in evil times...
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155995
04/11/2013 03:56 PM
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Bond has been denied for the Hakkens. The grandparents conducted a 20-minute interview with the two boys, but would answer no questions related to the criminal case.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155996
04/11/2013 07:45 PM
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So in essence, this was a custody battle with the in-laws, and who knows what strings they can pull to get their way in the situation.

I think maybe we need to back out of this one a bit. I register Libertarian, but the fact of the matter is, I will not let dope-heads be the main cause of any action on our part. I think pot should be legalized and is not that much of an issue, but if someone pushed the edge of acceptability on how casual their use has been, then guess what, they found the edge of it. Your chances of being declared an unfit parent can also tied into constant alcohol consumption too.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155997
04/12/2013 02:11 AM
04/12/2013 02:11 AM
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No! This was a state power case. In the state every child is under the protection of said state. While I can rob you in Maryland and live in Virginia in rather impunity. If I have my kids taken by a minimum wage Child Protective Services agent and go retrieve them the whole power of the Federal Government will come down on me.
They fear the loss of power more than they do the loss of that child or the safety of that child.

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155998
04/12/2013 02:37 AM
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If I have my kids taken by a minimum wage Child Protective Services agent and go retrieve them the whole power of the Federal Government will come down on me.
They fear the loss of power more than they do the loss of that child or the safety of that child.
Exactly.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #155999
04/12/2013 03:23 AM
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To be honest, something about this case has been bothering me from the very start. I picked up on it because it is truly an outrage if the state takes away your children because of a pot bust - which isn't even a crime in a few states now. And the press still seems eager to paint this couple as "anti-government," on the basis of a few posts on a gun board and a libertarian forum.

But the more I dug into it, the more bizarre the couple seems to be. Trust me, police are used to people acting strange, but ordinary people just don't create enough of a disturbance in a hotel room to have the police called, and they don't talk about taking "the ultimate journey to Armageddon." My personal threshold for calling Child Protective Services may be pretty high, but there is one, and if someone starts talking like that, I'd get a little worried.

And, well, ordinary people just don't set sail for Cuba and throw themselves to the mercy of a despotic communist government.

And the grandparents apparently have more information about the couple, though they wouldn't discuss it at their carefully-orchestrated press conference.

So, we'll just have to wait and see about this one. I still think taking the children away from them was wrong, but there may well be something else we don't know about yet.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #156000
04/12/2013 05:31 AM
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The children appear to be completely normal, happy kids in the company of their parents.

My line for taking children from parents is very, very high. I don't think that government has the right or authority to force healthcare treatments on a child of a Christian Scientist.

If the stated goal (per the Communist Manifesto) of installing and maintaining a marxist government includes taking a child away from a mother at the earliest time possible to break the mother-child bond and begin indoctrination, it's disturbing to see and hear the stuff that is going on.


"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always Bad Men." Lord Actin 1887

I fear we live in evil times...
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #156001
04/16/2013 04:44 AM
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The Hakkens are facing life in prison for taking back their children.

Quote
... Because weapons were involved, the Hakkens could be facing multiple charges carrying lifelong sentences. Kidnapping for the purpose of committing a felony and burglary with battery are both felonies punishable by life in prison, Tampa lawyer Rick Terrana said.

"They are literally legal strangers to the children, therefore it is straight-up kidnapping," Marchese said. "They will have a very difficult time in the criminal arena. You'll never be able to tell a biological parent, 'You are no longer the parent.' They don't understand that." (...)
Authorities have also added a "child abuse" charge, for inflicting "mental injury" on the children. Considering the children thought they were on vacation, that seems like a pretty odd charge to hit them with.

Bail has been denied for both of them.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #156002
04/16/2013 04:56 AM
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In the course of the work I do here in the Portland area over the last year or so, I have been working on house and RV projects a few times for people who work in various aspects of the CPS / Foster care system and heard some of the horror stories, met a couple of the people.

There is really bad shit being done to kids out there, and in some of these cases, the government is running a straight up rescue service. Do I think the system is abused? Yes, but you have to look at all of them on a case by case basis. What I don't fully even want to understand is how so much federal government resource is going to be focused on a situation where there are non-abusive parents when there are so many situations of obvious child rape and abuse which are going unpunished while the child is left in the home. I mean, when the father gets the 12 year old girl pregnant and she has been at the abortion clinic twice, it's time to not wait. When a 16 year old boy runs away and is sent back to the same home where his mother sends him out to buy tampons for his butt after a "visit" from "uncle", and "mother" suddenly has money for dope and alcohol after "uncle" visits the boy, it should not be hard for the authorities to figure out, yet those kinds of cases can and do remain mired in bureaucracy.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #156003
06/26/2013 08:30 AM
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The Hakkens are the subject of a new article in the [b]Tampa Bay Times[/b]. there isn't much new in it, but it does emphasize that that claim about the Hakkens being "anti-government" was largely bogus.

Quote
Politics has assumed an oddly prominent role in the criminal case of Joshua and Sharyn Hakken, the Tampa engineers accused of kidnapping their sons and fleeing more than 300 miles on a sailboat to Cuba.

At the case's outset, the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office said the couple were "antigovernment," a characterization echoed in news coverage. Some sympathizers have bristled at the focus on the Hakkens' ideology, saying the pair have been unfairly painted as extremists.

Interviews this week with the couple's defense attorneys and authorities in Louisiana — where the Hakkens had early run-ins with law enforcement last year — suggest elements of truth to both perspectives, and offer clues to the beliefs undergirding the Hakkens' actions.

While the pair hold deep-seated suspicions of government, according to their attorneys, early descriptions of some of their political activities by law enforcement officials now appear to have been inaccurate.

In particular, there is no available evidence the Hakkens attended an "antigovernment rally" last summer outside New Orleans, as was initially asserted by the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.

"She'll tell you she's not antigovernment," said Tampa lawyer Bryant Camareno, who is representing Sharyn Hakken, 34. "She's anti-big government."

Authorities say the Hakkens, after learning in April their parental rights were terminated by a court in Louisiana, kidnapped their children from Sharyn Hakken's mother and set sail from Madeira Beach.

They were apprehended in Cuba and are now being held without bail at the Falkenburg Road Jail on charges including kidnapping, child abuse and false imprisonment.

The portrait of the defendants emerging from their attorneys is that of an educated couple who adhered to some tenets of old-line libertarianism — distrust of public schools and organized religion — as well as ideas of newer vintage that fall well outside the mainstream.

Those include the concern that vaccines can harm children — an idea popularized in one form by Republican U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann during the 2012 presidential primaries— and the theory that some airplanes' exhaust trails contain substances spread for secret purposes by government officials, according to the Hakkens' attorneys.

Jorge Chalela, attorney for Joshua Hakken, 35, said the couple are "impressive, nice" people who "happen to be educated and are asking questions" about the U.S. government's activities.

Camareno said the Hakkens strongly desired to home-school their boys, ages 2 and 4. While they believe in a deity, Camareno said, they did not want their children brought up in a church....
Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #156004
01/22/2014 11:25 AM
01/22/2014 11:25 AM
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Well, I have an update to all of this. Joshua Hakken has been declared insane. His wife's trial, originally scheduled for next week, has been postponed until all this gets sorted out.

Quote
Doctors have determined that Joshua Hakken, the Tampa engineer whose anti-government paranoia drove him to abduct his children and flee to Cuba, is insane, making it likely he will be treated in a mental hospital before standing trial.

Hillsborough Circuit Judge Chet Tharpe said in a hearing Wednesday that he plans to determine within six weeks where to send Joshua Hakken, 36, for mental health treatment. Defendants who are incompetent to stand trial because of mental illness are ordinarily treated until they have recovered enough acuity to understand courtroom proceedings.

The fate of Hakken's wife and co-defendant is less clear. It appears the prosecution of Sharyn Hakken will continue, although the couple's trial date, previously set for next week, has been postponed. Her attorney has said she was an unwitting victim who got bullied into the kidnapping scheme by an abusive husband.

A hearing to further examine psychologists' reports on Sharyn Hakken's and decide on a treatment facility for Joshua Hakken is scheduled for March 4....
Onward and upward,
airforce

Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #156005
01/22/2014 01:41 PM
01/22/2014 01:41 PM
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The truly criminally insane cabal misnamed government declares their enemies insane and has declared war upon Americans


PISTIS en XPICT faith in Christ
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #156006
01/22/2014 08:39 PM
01/22/2014 08:39 PM
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Yep, full circle to old school Soviet methods.

People still try to push the lie that "getting off on the psych defense" is exactly just the opposite, it is the regular Justice system's entry point for indefinite detention and the far end of state sponsored forced disability through drugs and other treatment which can and does include several forms of torture.

Interestingly, the Church of Scientology is one of the leading organizations right now in exposing the abuses of the system on those things, but they don't push very hard on any particular case unless the abuses are done to one of their members, and even then their standing in the organization becomes a factor on that too. What the Scientologists have proven in past decades is that when it comes to their conflicts with government officials in that realm, they apparently know how to play and have a proven track record of using their own covert investigative techniques to ferret out abuses in the system.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: "Anti-Government" Couple Kidnap Own Childen #156007
01/23/2014 04:40 AM
01/23/2014 04:40 AM
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There are people in the system who truly are nuts. I've seen them, I've dealt with them, I've even been shot at by one of them. What I don't know is, what exactly should we do with them? Some people really should be in some sort of institution, for their own safety and the safety of others. But I think it should take more than the word of one doctor, and the order of one judge, to institutionalize someone indefinitely. I've been struggling with this for years, and I'm no closer to a solution now than I was when I started. I'm open to ideas.

As far as Mr. Hakken goes, I obviously don't know if he's really insane or not. But the couple's behavior in the hotel in Slidell, which started this whole thing, were scary enough that, if I were one of the cops responding to the call, I would have taken the same action. And a couple who are "anti-government" (or "anti-big-government," or whatever) fleeing to Cuba?

He may or may not be insane, but he sure seems to be a little bit off.

Onward and upward,
airforce


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