The Sides Are Forming for the Coming Civil War

Dave Hodges

November 25, 2013

The Common Sense Show

civil war 2I remember as a young child that the key to winning a lot of the neighborhood games in football and basketball was all about who got picked first. If you were lucky enough to get Michael on your team, then you knew you were going to win. If you were in a foreign park playing against kids you did not know, Michael was the great equalizer. I also knew that getting the right kids on my side helped in spelling bees and walking home from the movies so I didn’t get beat up. Learning how to organize my team with the right people, served me well when I became a men’s college head basketball coach in terms of winning the recruiting wars. I always felt the April recruiting wars was the deciding factor in many games in the following December.

America is in the choosing sides phase of the coming civil war. To use a college recruiting phrase, it is accurate to state that the letters of intent to join one side or another side, have mostly been signed and the commitments offered. However, there is one big uncommitted piece, but very soon the sides will be drawn.
The Chess Pieces of Civil War

What is going on today in America is all about choosing sides. There are clear lines being formed in the United States. The recruiting pool consists of the Department of Homeland Security, the American military, local law enforcement, the Russian troops pouring into the United States, the trickle of Chinese troops coming into the country through Hawaii and, of course, the poor, the middle class and elite. This is the recruiting pool which will form the chess pieces of the coming American Civil War.
The Contextual Background for Civil War

Even if all parties in this country wanted the country to continue, even in its present mortally wounded state, it would be foolish to believe that it could continue for much longer.

There are three paramount numbers that every American should be paying attention to and they are (1) national deficit ($17 trillion dollars), (2) the unfunded liabilities debt ($238 trillion dollars), and (3) the derivatives/futures debt (one quadrillion dollars which is 16 times the entire wealth of the planet. The net result of these staggering numbers can only end one way, and that is with a financial collapse, followed by a bank holiday, rioting in the streets and the full roll out of martial law. These financial numbers guarantee that the party cannot continue much longer.

Since America, in her present form, cannot continue much longer without experiencing a cataclysmic shift, we would be wise to realize what resources are going to be the impetus for civil war. When you play the board game, Monopoly, the properties on Boardwalk are among the most coveted. It is no different in real life. The biggest prize of the coming conflict is real estate. Homes, office buildings and shopping malls are the most coveted prize. The MERS mortgage fraud continues unabated as millions of homes have been confiscated through mortgage fraud. When the dollar is worthless and is awaiting its replacement (e.g. the Amero or the Worldo), real estate will be more valuable than gold.

Other big game that is being hunted by both sides in the coming civil war will be bank accounts, which must be looted before the dormant computer digits we call money, can be converted into hard assets. That is why my advice is, and has been, convert your cash into tangible assets which can enhance your survivability in the upcoming crash.

Also, your pensions, your 401K’s and your various entitlement programs are also at risk as evidenced by Secretary of Treasury Jack Lew’s “borrowing” from various Federal retirement accounts in order to increase the debt ceiling fight that will resurface in Congress, again, early next year.

Again, my advice is to convert your assets in tangible items which will aid in getting you through some very dark days coming up in the near future. Before the cognitive dissonance crowd rears their ugly heads and accuses me of fear mongering, ask yourself what the elite did prior to the crash of the economy in 1929. For example, Joseph Kennedy took his money out of the stock market the day BEFORE it crashed. Rockefeller, Westinghouse, et al., all took their money out just prior to the crash, leaving the ignorant masses unaware of what was coming. Don’t make the same mistake.

Barring a false flag event, US martial law will have a trigger event, which will lead to martial law, that will be a financial collapse and it will naturally occur as we are already on a collision course with destiny. I am not ruling out other events, but the economic crash scenario is easily the most likely event.
Building Fences Around the Ignorant

Please allow me to ask you an ignorant question. If you knew that a virus was coming to your neighborhood which would infect much of the local canine population, wouldn’t it be prudent to build a fence around all of the dogs in the neighborhood in order to isolate any potentially infected dogs? Well, this is how the elite view you.

Many of us, devoid of financial resources, will soon become like a pack of rabid dogs and we must be contained. As I have written about recently, it is becoming very difficult to get your money out of the country. Banks, such as JP Morgan Chase and HSBC have already imposed withdrawal limits. If you withdraw more than $10,000 cash, you run a good chance of being investigated by the IRS. One layer of fencing has already been placed around you and your assets.

The NDAA constitutes another big fence being built around the people in which all due process will soon be gone. The NDAA will allow the administration the “legal” right to secretly remove any burgeoning leadership of citizen opposition forces. The second provision which will allow this country to quickly transition to martial law is Executive Order (EO) 13603 which allows the President to take control over any resource, property and even human labor within the United States. This EO gives the President unlimited authority including the ability to initiate a civilian draft as well as a military draft. In short, this spells the potential enslavement of the American people. For those of you who still have your blinders on, research the NDAA and EO 13603 and then when you realize that I am correct in my interpretation, ask yourself one question; If the powers that be were not going to seize every important asset, then why would the government give itself the power to do just that? And while you are at it, remember the Clean Water Act gives the EPA to control all private property as well as the precious resources of all water. And then of course, the FDA and the conflicts with local farmers is escalating. And if this is not enough to convince the sheep of this country that the storm clouds are overhead, then take a look at HR 347 which outlaws protesting and takes away the First Amendment. This unconstitutional legislation makes it illegal to criticize the President and the government, as a whole, in the presence of Federal officials. I have news for you, there are Federal officials in every town, city and county in America. If one violates HR 347, they will be immediately arrested and charged with a felony.

I just saw the Hunger Games sequel, Catching Fire, and this is eerily similar to what I saw in a lot of movies in that the people are being provoked to revolution. In fact, in the TV show, Revolution, the most evil entity in the series is the re-emergence of the United States government and the heroes of the show are rebelling against the abuse. It seems like everywhere we turn in the media, the people are being encouraged to rise up now and challenge authority. I am sure the establishment would rather confront a small group of dissidents and squelch the rebellion now, before the numbers can become significant and overwhelming to the establishment and this theme is being carried out in the media on a large scale.

Along these same lines, Obama has done nothing but agitate the middle class. I like to ask Obama supporters, can you name one thing Obama has done, on behalf of the establishment elite, to improve the plight of the American middle class? I can’t think of even one thing.

The fences have been built around the soon-to-be rabid dog population, so when the infected dogs go crazy, the pieces will have been put in place to deal with the uprisings that will surely follow the loss of everything. Containment is nearly complete. The final action will consist of gun confiscation and one side of the coming conflict is attempting to position themselves to do that in the near future and that would be the DHS, the Russians and the Chinese. I cannot think of another legitimate reason which would describe why these foreign troops are here.

Cognitive dissonance only relieves some of psychological distress for so long.
Choosing Sides

I have told you what is at risk before the inevitable economic crash. Now it is time to take stock of the sides of this coming civil war and a very clear picture is emerging.

The poor have no resources other than their food stamps which are already under attack. The middle class and their resources are the target for the coming conflict. And most of the middle class has no idea that they have been targeted. Soon the divide and conquer strategies will lose their effectiveness and the poor and the middle class will be on the same team because they will both have lost everything.

As most of you know, I have been screaming from the roof tops that the “Russians are coming, the Russians are coming”, in reference to a bilateral agreement signed between the Russian military and FEMA. Well, the Russians are not coming, they are here and so are the Chinese. As most of you also know the Russians are Chinese have threatened to nuke the United States over Iran and Syria in the past several months. Yet, this administration thinks it is a good idea to include the Russians and Chinese in participating in highly secure operations with profound national security implications in such drills as Grid EX II and the upcoming RIMPAC war games which we used to use to fight against the imaginary Chinese and Russian forces. This is insanity, however, in athletic parlance, one side conducted a trade and is now receiving the services of their once arch-rival.

The sides of the coming civil war looks like this. On one side, we find the evil empire consisting of the elite, their government puppets, the DHS the Chinese, the Russians and perhaps the military. The other side, for the moment consists of the middle class and now the poor as they move towards having their entitlements incrementally taken away. Unless the military and the police can be swayed to the side of the people, the people are going to lose badly.

There is one big prize and its allegiance has not yet been determined and that is the American military and it is a game changer.
Carving Up the Military Like a Thanksgiving Turkey

Obama is purging the military like no president has ever done. Bush fired two Generals. Obama has fired hundreds of command level officers. Why? Because the military leadership is the key to the coming civil war. Who will the military support? Will the military support an out of control administration who would use foreign military assets against the people? Or, will they support the people that they are sworn to defend?

Obama has the Russians and the Chinese military coming into the country because our military cannot be trusted to do what needs to be done when the economic crash occurs. They are needed to confiscate the guns. Obama knows that the military is conditioned to protect the people. He is hoping that he can change the entire structure of the military and thus, change its mission through changing its leadership.

I personally do not think Obama can change the rank and file of the military. I think he can only have a minimal effect on the leadership of the military. If Obama’s purge of the military is anything but for the purpose of commandeering its services for the upcoming civil war, I would really like to hear another explanation, because, for the life of me, I cannot see another purpose to Obama’s house cleaning of the military. .

Obama needs to be impeached and convicted for treason.
Commanding Military Officers Terminated By Obama

-General John R. Allen-U.S. Marines Commander International Security Assistance Force [ISAF] (Nov 2012)
-Major General Ralph Baker (2 Star)-U.S. Army Commander of the Combined Joint Task Force Horn in Africa (April 2013)

-Major General Michael Carey (2 Star)-U.S. Air Force Commander of the 20th US Air Force in charge of 9,600 people and 450 Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles (Oct 2013)

-Colonel James Christmas-U.S. Marines Commander 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit & Commander Special-Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force Crisis Response Unit (July 2013)

-Major General Peter Fuller-U.S. Army Commander in Afghanistan (May 2011)

-Major General Charles M.M. Gurganus-U.S. Marine Corps Regional Commander of SW and I Marine Expeditionary Force in Afghanistan (Oct 2013)

-General Carter F. Ham-U.S. Army African Command (Oct 2013)

-Lieutenant General David H. Huntoon (3 Star), Jr.-U.S. Army 58th Superintendent of the US Military Academy at West Point, NY (2013)

-Command Sergeant Major Don B Jordan-U.S. Army 143rd Expeditionary Sustainment Command (suspended Oct 2013)

-General James Mattis-U.S. Marines Chief of CentCom (May 2013)

-Colonel Daren Margolin-U.S. Marine in charge of Quantico’s Security Battalion (Oct 2013)

-General Stanley McChrystal-U.S. Army Commander Afghanistan (June 2010)

-General David D. McKiernan-U.S. Army Commander Afghanistan (2009)

-General David Petraeus-Director of CIA from September 2011 to November 2012 & U.S. Army Commander International Security Assistance Force [ISAF] and Commander U.S. Forces Afghanistan [USFOR-A] (Nov 2012)

-Brigadier General Bryan Roberts-U.S. Army Commander 2nd Brigade (May 2013)

-Major General Gregg A. Sturdevant-U.S. Marine Corps Director of Strategic Planning and Policy for the U.S. Pacific Command & Commander of Aviation Wing at Camp Bastion, Afghanistan (Sept 2013)

-Colonel Eric Tilley-U.S. Army Commander of Garrison Japan (Nov 2013)

-Brigadier General Bryan Wampler-U.S. Army Commanding General of 143rd Expeditionary Sustainment Command of the 1st Theater Sustainment Command [TSC] (suspended Oct 2013)

Nearly 160 Majors through the rank of Colonel have been let go by Obama.
Commanding Naval Officers Terminated by Obama

-Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette-U.S. Navy Commander John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group Three (Oct 2012)-Tried to rescue Ambassador Chris Stevens but was arrested during the attempt.

-Vice Admiral Tim Giardina(3 Star, demoted to 2 Star)-U.S. Navy Deputy Commander of the US Strategic Command, Commander of the Submarine Group Trident, Submarine Group 9 and Submarine Group 10 (Oct 2013)

-Lieutenant Commander Kurt Boenisch-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock Ponce (Apr 2011)

-Rear Admiral Ron Horton-U.S. Navy Commander Logistics Group, Western Pacific (Mar 2011)

-Lieutenant Commander Martin Holguin-U.S. Navy Commander mine countermeasures Fearless (Oct 2011)

-Captain David Geisler-U.S. Navy Commander Task Force 53 in Bahrain (Oct 2011)

-Commander Laredo Bell-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Support Activity Saratoga Springs, NY (Aug 2011)

-Commander Nathan Borchers-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer Stout (Mar 2011)

-Commander Robert Brown-U.S. Navy Commander Beachmaster Unit 2 Fort Story, VA (Aug 2011)

-Commander Andrew Crowe-Executive Officer Navy Region Center Singapore (Apr 2011)

-Captain Robert Gamberg-Executive Officer carrier Dwight D. Eisenhower (Jun 2011)

-Captain Rex Guinn-U.S. Navy Commander Navy Legal Service office Japan (Feb 2011)

-Commander Kevin Harms- U.S. Navy Commander Strike Fighter Squadron 137 aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln (Mar 2011)

-Commander Etta Jones-U.S. Navy Commander amphibious transport dock Ponce (Apr 2011)

-Captain Owen Honors-U.S. Navy Commander aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (Jan 2011)

-Captain Donald Hornbeck-U.S. Navy Commander Destroyer Squadron 1 San Diego (Apr 2011)

-Commander Ralph Jones-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock Green Bay (Jul 2011)

-Commander Jonathan Jackson-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 134, deployed aboard carrier Carl Vinson (Dec 2011)

-Captain Eric Merrill-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Emory S. Land (Jul 2011)

-Captain William Mosk-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Station Rota, U.S. Navy Commander Naval Activities Spain (Apr 2011)

-Commander Timothy Murphy-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 129 at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, WA (Apr 2011)

-Commander Joseph Nosse-U.S. Navy Commander ballistic-missile submarine Kentucky (Oct 2011)

-Commander Mark Olson-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer The Sullivans FL (Sep 2011)

-Commander John Pethel-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock New York (Dec 2011)

-Commander Karl Pugh-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 141 Whidbey Island, WA (Jul 2011)

-Commander Jason Strength-U.S. Navy Commander of Navy Recruiting District Nashville, TN (Jul 2011)

-Captain Greg Thomas-U.S. Navy Commander Norfolk Naval Shipyard (May 2011)

-Commander Mike Varney-U.S. Navy Commander attack submarine Connecticut (Jun 2011)

-Commander Jay Wylie-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer Momsen (Apr 2011)



Forty one more were fired in 2012. One hundred and fifty seven were fired in 2013.


Partial Documentation

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20120103/NEWS/201030335/

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/arnold-ahlert/obamas-military-purge/

http://investmentwatchblog.com/list-of-names-military-purge-high-officers-terrifying/

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67653.html

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/art...rine-Expeditionary-Unit-relieved-command

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/art...-chief-nuclear-command-demoted-to-2-star

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...e-fired-officials-say/?intcmp=latestnews

CSC this post made a great point and I knew some of those Generals It was a shame what happened to some of them.

This article is spot on and tells it like it is. If people are not ready now then they better get ready fast.

Absolutely none of those names mean anything to me. They most likely had nor have any clue as to who I am or was. Not when my promotions were being suppressed, not when I was the subject of numerous repeated witch hunts, not when I was being locked up, isolated beaten and drugged while the lives of my family were being threatened.

That, and I missed the part where any of those black site facilities were being raided by rival black ops commandos with mission orders to rescue any of our people. They are getting out with a nice golden parachute, BFD. We have freedom fighters wondering where their next tank of gas or trip to the grocery store is getting paid for from.

None of those guys are any modern version of Ollie North, but I like the good news of hopefully less competent politically correct people being promoted to positions where their mission orders are most likely to include taking us down.

I am sure the next series of steps will include a major shakedown at the Justice Department, but the vast majority of those people are just plain Evil anyway, so they will go along with whichever is the more sinister sounding plan for the future of this country. I am curious though, what is going on in the world of purges among federal judges and magistrates.

The "mainstream" Republicans have practically declared war on the TEA party, the "mainstream" DemocRATS are racing each other to sell out and control organizations like the Occupy movement and the new upstart union affiliates. If there is to be any sort of Civil War, it will be multi-sided, and NOT honestly two sided. Anyone falling into the lie that it is two sided is simply setting themselves up for a dismal pathetic fail play.

The Civil War is going to be Multi Faceted Operations and fought along interior and exterior lines from within and without. Each and every person who has a dog in the fight will face troubles from within even their own organizations.

Mass chaos will be the rule of the day. And when the dust settles then the Exterior forces chomping at the bit over our hastened demise will come rushing in to seize the scraps.

Sorry Benjamin Franklin a republic we could not keep ... Will do better next time...

I have no source for this but has a point just the same

"I did some intel crunching, it's written in the form of reply to someone commenting that "The Government could just ocme take our weapons, so they're no good for resistance". Thought I'd toss this up here if anyone was interested.

Aircraft Carriers do nothing in Montana or South Dakota or Iowa or Nevada as a few examples. Nor do Cruisers, Destroyers, Frigates, Submarines or pretty much the entire US Navy. Strangely enough, the US Air Force finds it's high technology capabilities thwarted similarly, as air superiority fighters, strategic bombers, ICBM's and such really have diminished battlefield value against a predominantly irregular light infantry force. A vast percentage of the US military would be idle and without mission in such a conflict. That is among the basic premises and strategic strengths of 4th generation warfare, also called "asymmetrical" or "guerrilla" warfare.

Aside that, your assessment ignores basic socio-political realities of the situation that would come about, which is this: if such a struggle were to occur, the military would be at least as divided as the Citizens, in the Citizen's favor. Personally, I think you'd see a large majority side with the Citizens. So therefore, there would be opposing forces of similar nature to the ones "apparently" lacking. Citizens would gain nearly every effective capability militarily, possibly at a lesser quantity, almost certainly with more tenuous logistics and support, but it would be a massive gain in their favor. Aside that, to suppose that small arms and informal organization would somehow be ineffective against the US military is very puzzling to me, as I see no cause to draw that conclusion from contemporary or historical analysis, rather I come to entirely the opposite conclusions.

We've been fighting in Afghanistan, population 29.82 million spread in an area about the size of Texas, against an estimated total of approximately 35,000 individuals maximum, of often limited or marginal military training, who are not appreciable more capable in terms of individual weaponry and useful capability than is legally available to the average US Citizen. What they have which US Citizens lack is largely situational, in that it's items and materials readily available in any war zone, being expected to become available upon commencement of hostilities. With that said, we've been there going on 13 years now, are still involved in very real ground combat operations, taking very real casualties and incurring very massive expense to do so, have not eliminated the opposition threat in that time, while looking at the very real possibility of being there for yet another decade. This suggests we're finding some very real challenges in dealing with that level of conflict given our capabilities, even with the finest forces we can muster concentrated to the task, in a theater of war with policy, strategy, tactics and ROE that domestic operations would highly unlikely be allowed to equal.

Now, a contrast: The United States, population 317.27 million has nearly 40 times the geographical size of Afghanistan and 101 times the population. There are significantly more than 35,000 civilians who are military veterans, a total of 21.2 million (9.6 million are over age 65, 1.8 million are under age 35), gun owners are estimated at 149.12 million total (based on 47% self-reported ownership). This gives something like a total of 11.6 million effective veterans (331 times greater than estimates of hostile militant forces in Afghanistan) and perhaps 75 million additional effective gun owners using the same age ratio as with veterans., or 86.6 million armed Citizens (2474 times greater than estimates of hostile militant forces in Afghanistan) that can be reasonably expected to be functional within a range from basic to professional military operational utility.

Against those figures, there are approximately 1.4 million total current active, reserve and guard Service Members in all branches of service (many with no pertinent mission in this scenario), 137,000 DOD contractors (approximately 20,000 are PMC/PSC operatives), 275,000 DOJ/DHS agents (majority not armed or combatant capable positions), perhaps another 250,000 total Federal agents spread among other Departments, with an additional State and Local Police agencies totaling approximately 1.25 million members to include 875,000 sworn Officers (60% Municipal police, 24% County Sheriff, 16% State police). This gives something in the area of 3.1 million active Federal, State and Local Military and Law Enforcement members.

There are an estimated 270 to 310 million privately owned firearms in the US (of that, 110 million are rifles of various actions, another 3.1 million are NFA registered weapons as follows: 488,000 machine guns and 2.6 million plus destructive devices, short-barrel rifles, any other weapons and suppressors), compared to 3.85 million TOTAL firearms in both Military and Law Enforcement inventory.

This all then gives the Citizens a personnel advantage of approximately 28:1 over Government forces in total, while Veterans (not counting former LEO) have a nearly 4:1 margin over currently serving members of the military and law enforcement. In weapons, the Citizens enjoy a small arms advantage of nearly 75:1 over Government forces (29.4:1 counting rifles and NFA weapons only), as well as 80% parity in military-grade small arms when comparing only NFA weapons against all Government inventory . This in an area 40 times larger than Afghanistan with more than 100 times the population, to list off the most basic statistics for operational consideration, nothing like even a fraction of all the domestic material considerations let alone political at State and Region, or International consequences.

You might think the Government could just come rolling in and take all the weapons away, but I assure you they can not. For one, I believe were they able, they would, but they're trying to attain the political victory of voluntary incremental regulations, ideally toward disarmament, but at least to capability limitation and ownership and location registration, to enhance success of confiscation measures, so to accomplish what they can not achieve through force. In any event, if they tried to come take weapons forcibly, it would get very ugly, very vicious and very violent very fast, with a death toll of non-involved innocent non-combatant civilian casualties that would likely become catastrophic very rapidly. This leads me to conclude they would shortly find themselves out of the depths of capability to cope with or manage the conflict operationally, let alone Governmental operations during it, as well as likely lacking the determination to carry through with the policy under what would be clearly unlawful and aggressive actions resulting in high levels of civilian death and likely the loss of any real popular support for their cause that could have been hoped for. Unless catastrophic casualties were in their plan, which I'm sad to say I'd not necessarily rule out, either.

There's my short analysis."

STRATIOTES I believe the numbers of Government Forces are a lot less then he believes.

For one thing if law enforces are being used to fight against us, they will not be able to do their primarily job of keeping order in their Cities and Towns.

Also the Percentage of actual Combat Troops vs the Percentage of Support Personal in the Military is about 10% Combat the rest are Support.

I posted about the relative numbers the enemy vs the number of freedom fighters in another topic.

http://www.awrm.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=000738;p=1#000000

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Second American Revolution the Facts and Truth.

There are a lot of misconceptions that are believed to be the truth by a large percentage of Patriots, and that includes those who are members of this board.

These falsehoods are very dangerous as they lead to false conclusions which will have a negative impact on the Militia's effectiveness.

So I will post a few pertinent Facts that every Freedom Fighter needs to understand before they make any decisions relating to our fight for freedom.

The most important thing we all need to understand is the relative strength of our side, meaning the Freedom Fighters vs their side meaning the Government Forces.

Our Side aka Militia or Freedom Fighters will consist of a percentage of the estimated 80 to 90 Million that is 80,000,000 to 90,000,000 Gun Owners who are Citizens of the United States.

Their Side will consist of the Military and Law Enforcement that the Government will use against us.

First thing to take into consideration is how many of us, meaning Freedom fighters will actually be taking an active part and actually take up arms in the fight for freedom.

The truth is no one and I mean NO ONE has any way of knowing exactly how many of us will actually be fighting. All we or anyone can do is estimate or take an educated guess.

Now it has been said that 3% that is Three Percent of the Population of what was to become the United States actually fought in the American Revolution.

Today a lot of People use this Three Percent as the Percentage of the 80 to 90 Million Gun Owners who will take up arms in the Next American Revolution or Civil War.

I personally consider Three Percent to be the Minimum Percentage who will do the Patriotic thing and take up arms in the fight to preserve our God Given and Constitutionally Guaranteed Rights and Freedoms.

So what will the Actually Number of Freedom Fighters be?

I am just going to list the facts.

There are 80 to 90 Million Gun Owners so if 3% of them fight there will be 2.4 to 2.7 Million Gun Owners taking up arms.

Now lets see how many Freedom fighters other percentages give us, going from low to high.


If there are 90 Million Gun Owners then.

1% = 900 Thousand – 900,000
2% = 1.8 Million – 1,800,000
3% = 2.7 Million – 2,700,000
4% = 3.6 Million – 3,600,000
5% = 4.5 Million – 4,500,000

10% = 9 Million – 9,000,000
15% = 13.5 Million – 13,500,000
20% = 18 Million – 18,000,000

30% = 27 Million – 27,000,000
40% = 36 Million – 36,000,000


And if there are only 80 Million Gun Owners then.

1% = 800 Thousand --- 800,000
2% = 1.6 Million --- 1,600,000
3% = 2.4 Million --- 2,400,000
4% = 3.2 Million --- 3,200,000
5% = 4.0 Million --- 4,000,000

10% = 10.0 Million --- 8,000,000
15% = 12.0 Million -- 12,000,000
20% = 16.0 Million -- 16,000,000

30% = 25.0 Million -- 24,000,000
40% = 32.0 Million – 32,000,000


I personally believe that the number will be significantly greater then 1% and although I would love for there to be 40% or more who will take up arms in defense of Liberty I have no realistic expectations of that many being willing to fight so I will leave 40% as something to hope for but not to realistically expect.

There will also be some people who are not among the 80 to 90 Million Gun Owners who will also join in the fight to preserve their freedom. Some of these will acquire arms from their Gun Owner Family Members or Friends and some will fight using methods other then Firearms.

And there is one other thing as to the number of people who will or may be fighting against the Forces of the Government, that the members of this board and other Patriots don't seem to consider, and that is, we of the are not the only ones who are ticked off with the Government and who want to change things.

The KKK and Aryan Nation on the most extreme Left and the Earth Firsters, the Wall Street Protesters and other wackos on the most extreme Right and a lot of others in between these extremes.

There are a lot of people who are very very very pissed off with the Government for a lot of different reasons and some of these people will take physical action against the Government once the Fighting Starts.

And even though a lot of them may not have the same agenda or goals that we real Freedom Fighters have these Racist and Leftest Fighters will still be a major Pain in the Butt and Problem for the Government to deal with, and during a Civil War or Revolution, whatever is bad for the Enemy is very good for us Freedom Fighters.

Any Enemy of My Enemy is a Friend of Mine.
As to these others who are fighting against the Government for their own purposes all Real Americans especially us of the Militia need to fully understand that after the War is won, the leftists and some of the other groups will attempt to remake our Republic into their version of a Socialist Utopia, or whatever vision of perfection they want to see it become, so we will most likely end up fighting against them so that our New Nation will be a Constitutional Free Republic and not a Socialist utopia or a Racist “I hate Jews” Utopia etc.


And we also need to factor in those who will be fighting against the Government and maybe simultaneously also against the Militia for their own reasons, like the Atzlanders and their Reconquister.


That should take care of any questions about our Fighting Strength, so next will be the Enemy and how many Fighting Men will they have to use against us.

Now now many men with arms does the Government have to use against us Freedom Fighters.

The total strength that the United States Government can use against us includes the Military and Federal, State, County and Local Law Enforcement Personal, the numbers of which are:

Total Number of Civilian Law Enforcement Officers in the United States is 800,000. This number is divided up as follows.

This is copied
There are 683,396 full time State, City, University and College, Metropolitan and Non-metropolitan County, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.


Now lets get to the Military which some members fear.

The Total Strength of the United States Military both active and reserve is 2,295,000.

Now this may seem like a very large number of combat troops for us Freedom Fighters to engage in open combat, but Numbers can be and in this case are very misleading.

If you add up the Military and the Law Enforcers it equals 3,095,000, so how can Militia or Freedoms Fighters hope to win against that number. The answer is quite simple. The numbers I have posted is not the actually Combat Strength of the Government, but is only the Maximum number of Personal in the Military and Law Enforcement. It is like there are app 300 Million people in the United States but only 80 to 90 Million are Gun Owners and of the Gun Owners only 3% to 20% will actually fight.


The Military is divided up as follows.

Active Duty Military

Army -------------------- 548,000

Marine Corps ------------ 203,095

Navy -------------------- 332,000

Air Force --------------- 323,000

Coast Guard -------------- 41,000

Total Active ---------- 1,445,000


Military Reserves

Army National Guard ----- 353,000

Army Reserve ------------ 205,000

Marine Forces Reserve ---- 40,000

Navy Reserve ------------- 67,000

Air National Guard ------ 107,000

Air Force Reserve -------- 67,000

Coast Guard Reserve ------ 11,000

Total Reserve ----------- 850,000

Total of Active and Reserve Military 2,295,000

Total of Military and Law Enforcers --- 3,095,000


Ok now we know the total number of Armed Forces Personal combined with Law Enforcement Personal so next is figuring out how many Armed Men and Women out of the Total Number of 3,095,000 the Government will be able to use against us.


We will need to do some Subtracting and Dividing. I will take the Military first.

And First the Subtraction.

For the purpose of this Topic I will consider the Coast Guard to be Military.

The Coast Guard has 41,000 Active and 11,000 Reserve, total 52,000.

The Navy has 332,000 Active and 67,000 Reserve.


The way I look at it all of our fighting will be on land so the Coast Guard will have Zero effect on the Government's war effort, so the Coast Guard is effectively useless and will have no effect. So we can Subtract the Coast Guards 52,000 personal.

The Ratio of Combat to Support personal, in Military Jargon (Tooth to Tail Ratio) in the Navy is very high plus the Navy is naturally a Naval Force which makes it of very limited value to the Enemy in their War against us.

The only parts of the Navy to be concerned about are the Carriers and Naval Aviation and the SEALS. And as far as Naval Aviation is concerned only the flight crews of combat aircraft are to be considered Combat Personal all other Crew Members of the Carrier are Support Personal.


What percentage of the Navy are Combat Pilots I do not know but it can't be that large of a percentage and the SEALS are only a very small percentage of the Navy's total strength.

So just for the purpose of this topic lets figure that 90% to 98% of the Navy is either Support Personal or otherwise not useful in the Government's War effort.

Lets for the for the sake of this post, figure that 95% is support so that leaves 5% of the Navy's 399,000 which

Equals 19,950 combat personal and I am being very generous even giving the Navy that number.

Next is the Air Force's 323,000 Active and 67,000 Reserve and Air National Guard 107,000.

The Ratio of Combat to Support personal, in Military Jargon (Tooth to Tail Ratio) in the Air Force is very high but since I figure the Navy has a higher Tooth to Tail Ratio then the Airforce, I will figure that the Air Force has 8% to 10% combat personal.

So the Air Force has only 39,760 to 49,700 combat personal and like the navy I am being very generous.


So now we get to the Army and the Marines and their Reserves and also the Army National Guard. Which have a total strength of 1,349,095.

Now that seems like a formidable number but we need to understand that only about 10% are Combat Personal all the rest are Support Personal.

Using Military jargon the Tooth to Tail Ratio is 1 in 10 that means for every Soldier or Marine who is directly involved in Combat there are 9 Support Personal.

What this means is that the number of personal 1,349,095 is very misleading.

The actual number of Combined Army, and Marines that will be on the battle field fighting against us will only be 10% of the total which equals 134,909 which is the number we will have to fight against.

So now lets add up all the Military forces that can be used against us.


Army --------------- 110,600

Marines ------------ 24,309

Navy --------------- 19,950

Air Force ------------ 24,850

Total --------------- 179,709


Now we get to the 800,000 Law Enforcers who may be fighting against us.

Now figuring out how many will be actively fighting against us as Combat Personal is not as easy as figuring out how many of the Military we will be fighting against.

For one thing Police and other Law Enforcers are not Trained for or Equipped for Military type Combat and are not normally deployed as Combat Personal. The closet Law Enforcers get to being Combat Personal is SWAT and the FBI's HRT and these Law Enforcers are only a very small percentage of the total number of Law Enforcers. And even these SWAT cops are not trained for Military type Combat, SWAT Cops are mostly trained for Home Invasions and Barricade Situations, they are not trained to go into the Bush and seek out and engage a Military Unit.

Some SWAT Cops in rural areas may be more competent in the Bush but they are still not capable of engaging a regular Military Unit in the Bush.


Another thing about Cops, they already have a full time job, giving out traffic tickets and making money for their City or Town, and enforcing all the other Laws oh and they also show up at crime scenes long after the crime has been committed and they also respond to domestic situations. They also do keep street and other crime under some control, so they do have a useful purpose.


Here are a few facts.

Cops like anyone else can only be in one place at a time. They can't answer Domestic Disturbance calls and be in a Fire Fight with the Militia.

If the Police are going to be used to fight against us in the War they are not going to be able to properly do their regular job which is supposedly to protect the General Population and keep crime under control and if they are spending all or a lot of their time searching for Freedom Fighters and also fighting Freedom Fighters Crime will Increase and the General Population will be screaming for Police Protection.

Think of it this way. A Bank will be robbed and the robbers will be sunning themselves on a beach in Rio by the time the Cops arrive at the Bank.

In the third Die Hard Movie, someone robbed a store and told Willis that with all the cops off the street you could rob Fort Knox and if Cops are chasing Militia the Criminals will be able to do as they please.

So the Police will either be able to do their usual job or they will be fighting against the Freedom Fighters what do you think the Mayor and Chief of Police will want their Cops doing?

When the war first starts it will be the Cops who will be fighting against us but once the war is fully on it will be the Military we will be fighting. The Police will only have a small part to play.

Another reason the Police will not want to fight against us is, as long as they stay out of it they will not be considered Combatants, but if they do take an active part they will be considered Combatants and will even be Targets of Opportunity and will be taken out whenever and wherever they are found or encountered.

Many in the military and law enforcement will either join us, support us (inside Intel) or simply not give 100%... These patriots will balk at firing on their own.

Look what happened when the Tsar forced the Russian army to fire on citizens! They simply joined the revolt!

Sorry Husker, the good guys are well under 20% in armed services and LE.

The only times we had any outright refusals to participate was when the intended victim was personally known to them.

I know of one of our patriot brothers who was in the federal prison in Sheridan and at the moment he was about to be thrown down a set of stairs by a pair of the senior officers there, was recognized by a lower ranking guard who knew him from the National Guard. The impromptu execution was stopped and our guy transferred to another facility where he was treated for his injuries from a pile on beating earlier that day.

Specialized groups vs specialized groups in what is largely an intelligence driven battle space where each group tries to identify, pursue and engage the opposition on their own terms.

We have yet to see a single hot engagement where both sides committed to action in recent years. I can think of two close calls, one involving an attempted arrest of Charlie Puckett, which ended in a draw then strategic win for the Feds, and then the takedown of the Hutaree which was a tactical win for the Feds then eventually a strategic loss for them.

The Hutare case is an example of the intel an infiltration driven battle space where the LE people had assets within the Hutaree defense plan at two levels. One infiltrator in the group, then a traitor leading the "allied" group that surviving members went to for assistance.

You are probably correct at this point... But when the SHTF and we have a full scale insurrection (hypothetically) I would think that % would go up. This is why the Obamination's purges of the officers staff is conserning. He's removing those with morals, principals and spines.

I would have to meet those men to make a judgement on the morals, principles and spines thing.

I think it is more of a loyalty and performance issue. I have seen some of the really good guys simply just get turned after someone really mindfucked them into thinking we are the bad guys, others bullied, some just plain bought out with more money power and privelage. Out problem right now is we can't even come close to competing in that realm and not just the enemy knows it, but our friends do to.

I was one of very few in my old shithead commie sellout unit who was actually taking a pay cut to enen go to drill let alone take a deployment so they all knew my price tag was higher to begin with compared to my rank. All that active duty power tripping "we control your life" shit did not hold much against me, but that was because I spent years cultivating backup sources of income, which one by one came under attack by those in government which demonstrated to me it was not my personal failures keeping me down but a full time staff of enemies working in the background as malefactors.

Prior to that, I was in a unit that was functionally militia in the truest sense. Sure we had some .gov funding, but if that did not happen, we came up with substantive training on our own, with our own "resources". We networked with other unit leaders and even had representatives make contact with the more underground civilian groups as we prepped to coordinate resistance to the gun grabber martial law scenarios. That is all a thing of the past now. I know because certain "key events" came and went with nothing being done about it.

Our eventual failure was in not having a sufficient economic loyalty base to guarantee positions and economic sustainability to good loyal people. A few high performing sell outs got in, had a lot of intel in the core guys and as they rose up, took control. It all was coming to an end about the time we had a command staff hand picked by a FEMA official.

The other big move that gutted our leadership in CA was when .gov came in with a combination of higher pay and lots of weapon exemptions and privelages for anyone even remotely associated with law enforcement. Prior to that, they were practically the leadership cadre for a lot of the resistance cells in the part time military. Then by the Bush era, Special Forces was just plain purchased by the high dollar corporate security contractor community.

Everybody can say they will do this or that. When in doight look at how the individuals act when things are good. If they say they are only following orders now Just imagine how or what they may do when things are bad

http://www.examiner.com/article/gun-control-what-if-we-say-no

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...fusal-enforce-unconstitutional-gun-laws/

Lord Vader although I believe your numbers are fairly accurate, You must consider how many Air Force drone pilots they will have?...

How may of the Gun owners in the US are brain washed to think the militia is the bad guys?...

Just like in the revolution there will be loyalist, fighting and supplying their side?..

How many LEO's will not fight for their side?

The purge of leadership in the military is exactly a ploy to gain better control over the troops..

They know they don't have the leadership and without that, they will not have the troops..

The revolution is being quietly fought in the Pentagon right now... The tyrant is making his first moves..

IMHO

Greywolf

All this adds to is a splinter war. So be it. Good job on some of your assessment Vader.

splinter war indeed. Something I had not thought of is what if some of the wealthy foreign interests make a series of offers to purchase the most high tech force projection portions of our military outright? Those in charge of naval groups overseas accepting offers to worl for well heeled "allied" nations in return for full pay and evacuation of friends and family from the chaos of civil war by heavily defended airlift and floatilla. It is audacious, but something some countries could afford id the US military were being dismantled and sold off.

Imagine some caravan of Saudi sheiks showing up to a Kuwaiti military base after several months of no pay, food shipments paid for un US dollars getting more infrequent, then they approach the commanding general and his staff with a very well funded and respectful offer along with a list of grievances they wish to have settled with some unruly neighbors.

That is chillingly close to an offer being implied right now by by the Saudis over Syria.

Total the number in the military, the police, and the reserves. Then double it to account for their maximum possible growth. In a country that has security forces of 5.5 million, that would mean a max of about 11 million.

The rule in counterinsurgent war is that the security forces need a ten to one manpower ratio, in order to maintain control. While the insurgents need to exceed a one to ten ratio, to tip the scales in their favor.

Therefore; in a hypothetical country of 300 million, with security forces that could theoretically grow to 11 million, an insurgent force would need to exceed 1.1 million, in order to over-extend the resources of the enemy. T.E. Lawrence once calculated that it took no more than 2% of a country's population to wage effective insurgent warfare. So, in a country of 300 million, one is looking at insurgent forces of perhaps as many as 6 million to bring about total victory.

Friend where did you get that figure for the Security Forces being 5.5 Million?

That is greater then the total I calculated.

Total of Active and Reserve Military --- 2,295,000

Total number of law enforcement personnel in the U.S. --- 800,000

Total of Military and Law Enforcers --- 3,095,000

That is a lot less then the 5.5 Million you posted.

And then you double it to 11 Million

The Calculated number of Actual Combat Forces of the entire US Military, taking into cosideration the Tooth to Tail Ratio is 179,709 and that is the Number American Freedom Fighters will have to fight against. And that is no where near 5.5 Million.

You have made multiple errors.

For one you can not just total up the number of Military, the Police and Military Reserves, it is the Military Reserves you ment, right. It is neccessary to do as I did and figure in the actual Combat Strength vs what you did in just totalling up the numbers of everyone in Uniform.

And as to that figure of 11 Million what formular did you use to come up with that figure and as I stated even your figure of 5.5 Million is way too high.

So even if the total number of enemy combatants were 5.5 Million, which it is not, how did you come up with that 11 Million and not 10 Million or 12 Million?

And since you like theoretical how about this.

There are over 100 Million Gun Owners and I have seen posted in another topic that the number may be as high as 149 Million so theoretically the Number of us meaning Freedom Fighters could number 90 Million or even a lot more, since 90% of 100 Million is 90 Million and that would make winning the coming War a cake walk.

I am not going to repost what I just posted so why don’t you reread what I said about the total number of the Enemy’s Fighting Forces.

The ten-to-one manpower ratio includes ALL security force personnel.

The 10-11 million figure comes from my best guess-timate of what such a hypothetical country could expand its forces to, if hard-pressed, and without becoming totally bankrupt.

There are more likely 45 million of the people you mentioned, in the country you made reference to. And, if the SHTF, at least 90% of them would stay home, and watch it all on tv.