I don't know. I'm not clairvoyant. My ESP has never worked all that well. But it may well be that if you replaced all those redcoats with bureaucratic busybodies from the county code enforcement agency, you wouldn\'t be too far off .

These are people who aren't endangering anyone, or defrauding anyone, or infringing on anyone's rights. They're not lowering anyone's property values, or not paying taxes, or creating a health or fire hazard. There is no child endangerment, no contamination on anyone else's property. No nothing.

So why are these armed county agents, wearing bulletproof vests, forcing these people to dismantle they're home?

Because they can. And if a government can do something, it will do something. It's that simple.

Onward and upward,
airforce

There could be a couple triggers to Lexington and Concord 2.0

1. The economy (Austerity measures bringing resistance like Greece and then general lawlessness)
2. The 2012 election (re: 1860 election)
3. Gun grab 1775 style
4. Mexican Drug War creating a de facto war zone in American S.W. strengthening militias there which grow enough to actually rebel
5. We stop talking shit and do something about this shit hole fascist state

POLICE STATE 2011: Woman arrested for speaking at city council meeting

Quartzsite, AZ – The Mayor is challenged under a recall election beginning next month. Accusations have been made. The city council is persecuting the Mayor for giving the people a voice. The Chief of Police is also involved in the scandal.

Jennifer Jones is given the floor at a city council meeting open to the public. While she is speaking the council realizes she’s about to air their dirty laundry and quickly beckons their henchman to cart her off.

The Mayor steps in and says Jones has been recognized to speak and has not violated the council’s rules, but the council ignores him and has the woman removed even as the Mayor continues to contest. The police officers ignore the Mayor of the city and remove the woman. It’s obvious who those cops work for, and it’s not the people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YPY3BIsVQq8#at=75

Ms. Jones is the publisher of the local newspaper, had just filed to run for mayor, AND had recently been physically injured by the local police! She, apparently, has been VERY active in the local community of Quartsite, AZ and is concerned enough to get off her duff and try to do something about a situation that she perceives. http://www.quartzsitearizona.blogspot.com/

Quartzsite Police Chief Gilbert assaults man for videotaping

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBwCW9gX2jg

This kind of stuff goes on only because we tolerate it and allow it to continue. They do what they do because we don't and have not stood together in one accord, standing up for our rights to be free and without oppression.

Until this happens, expect them to continue with there oppressive tactics. They wont stop until they see some of their buddies heads role down the isle. Then and only then will they have a change of heart.

As Stone Wall Jackson would say ONLY THE BLACK FLAG WILL DO GENTLEMAN.

Leo out

You want a Lexington?

Go down to Arizona and defend Ms. Jones. Next time she speaks be there with your rifle... or rifles.

Then try to cart her off, defend her. Could you throw your lives and everything you've built up into the fire? See that's what most people have a problem with; when it's crunch time they think of family and losing everything and the enemy plays off that. Then when you give up they'll kick you about, tase you and have a jolly laugh in the locker room before they get busy in the showers.

You wave the black flag you'd better just start shooting.

If you can get past yourselves to do that, you'd better have a Concord ready at that moment. In this situation as you get out of there how will you deal with pursuit-attempt to flee, or use the pursuit as a series of ambush opportunities.

And can you get more than yourself in on this?

The quality of these incidents is that they are far and wide in an enormous nation. Were it not for the Internet none of it would be known.
While many are asking for someone to tell them where to sign up for the revolution, most are asking why they moved Survivor from one time slot to the other.
The people know what is happening. They just choose not to be affected. The look at what they have, how they live, and what would happen if they were found to be associated with known Domestic Terrorists.
They choose a life in serfdom, afraid of the knock on the door, or the flashing light in the mirror. the choose it over no job, no food, and no way to improve their lot.
When this nation falls a little lower they will become more receptive to doing their duty, but not till they have to.

Croft,

NO, I do not want a Lexington. Heck I don't want any of this crap. But guess what? It doesnt matter what I want. I myself am a minuscule part of this process.
If we dont defend folks like this Ms. Jones, then we have already lost. You have failed to understand my point. First of all I am not a word jockey. Secondly, its difficult to say it in the context I mean it in on a computer verses a regular conversation.

You talk about throwing away your lives and everything you've built and what not. But, to sit and do nothing is sinful in my opinion. How does the saying go. " All tyranny or evil needs is for good men to sit and do nothing" Hope that was close.

You also fail to understand, that some, not all are worried about fleeing. This country is my country. You can even call it my Alamo if you want to. But cowardice is what have brought us to this point in time. Good men sitting and doing nothing.
I have tried to address some of your comments, but will not address others in this environment.

Here is something I found this morning. A comment from someone I do not event know.

The left is emboldened by the election of their ‘fellow traveller’, obama. There is a very good chance that there will be a violent revolution by the left, especially in the wake of government cuts that must come. It is NOT a time for us (average citizens) to set back and watch it on television……or you will wake up to a socialist/communist country. YOU must get involved and literally. physically fight back and go to war against the communist. Get in the fight

In my opinion, the revolution has already begun. People just have not realized it yet.

Leo out

Radley Balko has a theory that no one becomes a libertarian on their own--libertarianism happens to people. I think there's some validity to that theory. As long as people are only mildly inconvenienced at airports, and the really nasty stuff always happens to somebody else, they're not going to get too excited. After all, we all have problems of our own to worry about.

But the nasty stuff is happening to other people, and more and more people are beginning to see the light. And what's going to happen when unemployment doubles to 20%, inflation hits 20%, what's left of the equity in people's homes disappears, and their retirement pensions evaporate?

Well, I don't have ESP, but I sure can guess. And I'm guessing it won't be pleasant.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Truth is it will be all of the above.The question isn't what.But,when?.....Soon me thinks...Even with the NWO/FEDS/UN overtures of peaceful political reform...They are scared as hell and working fast to finish their predatory moves before full combat erupts...They know if we act now they have lil'chance of putting down a popular uprising ...Later,in just a year or so,it will be a different story.They need the time the promise of "winning" the '12 election will bring.Now we are the strong brits in Singapore and they are the much weaker Jap force out of ammo.But the japs didn't need anymore rounds.The brits surrendered when asked to.We just need to see that.

Fifty percent of the people will never resist.

Why?

Because they are slaves of the beast.

They depend on the government for their food, housing and medical care. Do you think they will bite the hand that feeds them?

Millions more depend on the government for their business contracts or job. Do you think they will risk losing their paycheck, insurance and retirement benefits over a little thing like freedom?

And, millions depend on the government for their socialist security check. Do you think they will risk losing their only source of income?

No. These people will do what they're told so long as the benefits keep rolling in. If something happens to those benefits, they will complain, protest, riot and demand that their master does something to take care of them.

Only the few who are free and independent of the system will resist.

Likely the 2000 election result map by county will give a clue as to where the centers of resistance will be. Those will likely be the places in the country where .gov troops and contractors will concentrate hunting.

Here's another code enforcement case, this one from Oak Park, Michigan . God forbid you're front yard looks different than your neighbor's.



So what is she going to do? And what could happen to her? From her blog:

And another libertarian joins the ranks.

Onward and upward,
airforce

If she was like me there is a huge loophole that she could take advantage of if she wanted to really tick off those who reported her and those rotten government b**tards.

Several people in my general area had a similar problems with bureaucrats or their scum sucking neighbors.

A couple of people had a problem because their home had not been painted as recently as their neighbors thought was proper and another man bought property and then had problems building what he wanted on his property. And another man had a problem because his lawn was not mowed as often as others believed he should mow it.

So what did these people do.

Well one of the men with the house that needed painting, made sure it was legal and then painted his home white with black dots and painted a tail on the back of the house and a eyes and nose with whiskers on the front of his home making it look like a very big Dalmatian Dog.

Another man painted his house in multiple bright day glow colors making it look like it was part of a Carnival. And I read about another man who painted it like a Wonder Bread bag.

These inventive painting jobs sure ticked off the people who complained about the old faded paint jobs, and there was nothing that could be done to these men because it was all legal.

And the man who was prevented from building a house got revenge by cutting down all the trees but leaving the stumps and then painting the stumps in multiple bright colors.

And the man who got into trouble over his lawn solved his problem by taking advantage of a loophole in the law and made his entire lawn into a very big blacktop driveway and he then painted it green.

So if the law in Oak Park states All unpaved portions of the Site shall be planted with grass etc a solution for her would be to pave over where the lawn or garden used to be and she might also be able to paint the pavement Red, White and Blue to show she is a real American. She would be complying with the Letter of the Law yet still be pi**ing off the scum sucking Oak park Bureaucrats, and all the neighbors who complained.

The law can be a two edged sword and it can sometimes be used against those who love to use it against us.

By the way a while ago someone took advantage of a Law that required a man to take his Musket to Church on Sunday and did just that and there was nothing that could be done to him. The only thing that happened was repealing that Law.

Pretty much. There are only a handful here who would be willing to put up a real fight and that isn't near enough.

As such they will take us down one at a time.

And it will NEVER be a big enough deal for anyone to get involved. We have to work within the System don't you know. We have to save our move for something big.

So,

July4Patriot
Hutaree
Ruby Ridge
Waco


They'll come for us all eventually and we'll stand there with our jaws hanging, wishing we'd done something when we had the chance.

By the time any of us decide to truly act we will realize that most all of our best fighters are in the camps.

We have a dilemma in that we will hardly be successful without widespread popular support.

But also, if we take too long to gain that support and legitimately can contest the .gov, our time may have passed.

As long as the Quislings among us enable the beast, this crap will continue. How many of these situations originate with a "citizen complaint?"

Maybe we should be "tarring and feathering" the Tories.

not directed at anyone particular - just ranting...

What is that number? 10%? 20, 40 60?

This keeps being refered to in different ways.

I doubt there will ever be more than 5% that are really ready to go.

Hell i bet 60 to 75% of this country would be fine if Barry O. just declared himself King. They could just go back to the easy chair and never have another worry.

And that same % will go with whomever "Wins".

90%+ are just fine with getting a License to do everything anymore, and for some reason will never question it when you ask why.

Absolutely. Works for me.

As for the Sheeple biting the hand that feeds them, it is more like the hand that is stealing for them. To Hell with both sides of that arrangement.

Update on Quartzite Arizona...

TODAY ON THE ALEX JONES SHOW Ed Foster

On this Tuesday edition of the Alex Jones Show, Alex talks with Ed Foster, the mayor of Quartzite, Arizona. Foster was ousted by the city council and replaced by the town's police chief. The far western Arizona town is now under martial law after the council declared an open-ended state of emergency in response to a video of the arrest of Jennifer Jones during a council meeting. Foster described the government and the chief of police as corrupt and abusive of their power.

The best argument the lady could use for her vegetables is they are a 'Victory Garden' which are not only allowed, but are encouraged when this country is at war. Last time I looked Iraq and Afcrapastan qualified.

Puts the onus back on the city and makes it look UNPATRIOTIC to boot.

This situation seems like a good time for the People with the help of the Militia to make a stand.

Arizona is very pro gun and there must be a large number of Citizens of that corrupt town who own firearms so they should take action and put a stop to this crap. And if they need help are there not Militias in Arizona.

What might be the result, if armed citizens fully backed the Mayor in taking his Office back. If the Mayor asked the people to help him what would happen to the Mayor and to the armed Citizens who helped him.

Seeing red in Arizona. And via the comments section, this blog entry by Rocky Bertsch . On the face of it, it looks like someone figured out how to embezzle millions of dollars from a town with less than 4,000 residents.

Heck, don't send the miscreants to jail. Send them to Congress. They'll fit right in.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Just hang them - we don't need anymore wana-be tyrants in DC.

Some Small Town politicians are so ignorant and stupid that they should be neutered and spayed so they can not reproduce.

I believe that if an aircraft were to have crashed due to Johnson's and that Police Chief's actions that what they did would have been grounds for at least voluntary manslaughter convictions if any one had gotten killed and the Civil Suits would have bankrupted that town.

Most politicians are ignorant and some are in addition very stupid and some are also EVIL but some just set a new standard for ignorance and stupidity and being EVIL.

A while back I was looking for a place out west to move to and I found a town that was giving away free land to anyone who would build a home there and move there and while I was checking out the towns regulations I found one that proved beyond any reasonable doubt that some small towns politicians are as stupid as Amoebas.

Besides having an Ordinance against Pit Bulls which I consider especially stupid in a town with less then 5,000 residents, there was an Ordinance against keeping undomesticated livestock within the Town Limits and then went on to mention animals like cattle and sheep.

These Local Yokels apparently were not aware that Cattle and Sheep are not
undomesticated and that undomesticated is another term for Wild Animal.

When people making the laws are so stupid and uneducated and have such a poor grasp of the English language that they don't know the difference between domesticated and undomesticated it is no wonder that towns like Quartzsite have such rotten and corrupted politicians and are totally screwed up.

On the garden issue, that would be entirely welcome in Portland. There will never be another "Lexington & Concord" until there is another mass hostile action on the part of one government body against another, with the victim being more locally popular than the aggressor.

The big issue with defending any of these people in these little fights is the question of how much backing you will get when you do it, and in many cases, a lot of these people who you are defending will straight up turn against you once they figure it is to their advantage to. That's the dangerous part. I have been into those situations more than once where someone figured they would be able to make a manipulation/sympathy play on some "anti-government nutjob", and then I found out they turned right around and were badmouthing me behind my back, some even collaborating over it once someone higher up in .gov figured out the people could get bought off.

That's where in these situations of defending someone's rights, you make your own decisions on when to commit to the fight, but nowdays I am pretty cautious about it, however getting involved for no cash reward does put one on a morally higher ground than the "consummate professionals" who thug for a living.

Looks like we got a Lexington whether we want it or not in Quartzsite AZ. We don't always get to choose the battles we participate or demurr from.

The mayor gets canned in a recall election-fine. Do likewise for this corrupt council. They want to bully Americans about with their oath traitors? Fine, time for some militia action.

Protests, tax strikes, shunning. Choose your tactics but it is obvious the public servants of Quartzsite are at WAR with the People of Quartzsite.

Oh, from Stewart Rhodes' Oath Keepers:

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/07...ter-regarding-police-chief-jeff-gilbert/

Quartzsite Police Officers Refuse to Follow Unlawful Orders. Read Their Official Letter

57ShareNOTE FROM STEWART:

Full disclosure -- I am now the official legal counsel for both Jennifer Jones and for Ed Foster, the Mayor of Quartzsite, Arizona, regarding all of the many well documented abuses of their civil rights, and in particular, their First Amendment protected rights of free speech, assembly, as well as their rights to take part in the political process, by the Quartzsite Chief of Police and Town Council. This is in my individual capacity as a lawyer, not as the President of Oath Keepers. I want to make that clear. But I do see this as part of my responsibility to keep my oath, and in particular the oath I swore as a lawyer, to defend the Constitution. Sometimes the law can indeed be used as a sword of justice, so please wish me luck in helping them hold the town council and the Chief of Police accountable!

rest at the link.

This is my article: http://freedomguide.blogspot.com/2011/07/quartzsite-arizona-declares-full.html

Ignorant and stupid you can deal with or at least avoid. Ignorant and stupid wielding power is something else. Time for Americans to prove they're worthy of the name and help the people of Quartzsite clean their town out. Recall election and willing men to defend them.

Everytime I hear Mr Rhodes speak it gives me a rash I can't scratch.
He says he is representing them as is his oath. It makes me wonder what oath. He was a military lawyer and is probably still on call is it his oath to the Constitution OF the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Corporation. His oath as a member of the BAR (British Archival Registry) to support the Crown of England. It can't be the Oath to the constitution For the united States of America since the 13th Amendment to that constitution calls for anyone with a foreign title or allegiance to be deported Mr ESQ.
He still hasn't figured out whose side he is on.
What is needed in that town is for the people to convene a peoples grand jury and start looking at the Chief of police for denying the lady her rights.

safetalker, do you ever fact check before you post? The BAR has no such origin (British Archival Registry), and Esquire, in the United States, is an assumed title, used by the legal profession for shits and giggles, not granted by the government. Please, oh, please prove me wrong. Let's play a little game, and I'm sure you're down for this....let's assume I'm completely ignorant. Back up your drivel. Point me in the right direction.

Last estimate I saw, there are over 40,000 no knock SWAT raids per year.

Let that soak in.

Then we have untold thousands of cases like the ladie's garden and the petty tyrants of Quartzite Arizona.

Pick a town, any town. There is tyranny everywhere you look. Your local town is where the tyrants need to be put on notice.

All of these local wannabe nazi's should be receiving orders to cease and desist. And, the people need to stop being pussies, grow some balls and start enforcing their rights.

..................................................

Regarding Rhoades...I could care less about any titles of nobility he may claim. What matters is what he does. If he steps up to the plate like a man; he should be treated as one. If he turns traitor to the cause of liberty, he should be held in utter contempt.

You know what the problem with a pissing contest is? Everyone gets wet.

Lets not belittle our fellow patriot brothers publicly, what do you say? Granted, I'm no angel, but we are just so close to the abyss that we need to hang tighter now than ever.

Leo out

Safetalker doesn't need to check his facts since safetalker is someone who just knows the truth, which he is is happy to let all us ignorant and stupid people in on it.

I believe safetalker meant to post British Accreditation Registry but instead posted British Archival Registry.

That mistake doesn't actually make any difference since the British Accreditation Registry does not seem to exist. The only references I have so far found for it have been on American Patriot Sites. If it actually existed there would be an actual British Accreditation Registry located in the UK.

I did find the following on what BAR actually stands for and the truth about the Myth of the British Accreditation Registry


http://constitutionalgov.us/pipermail/generalcongress_constitutionalgov.us/2010-March/000337.html


"British Accreditation Registry" is a myth


The BAR being the British Accreditation Registry is an example of a patriot myth that is not just based on misreading of something, but on an outright fabrication. The origin of the term "bar" is well established in the etymological record. It refers to a wooden rail erected in a courtroom to separate those with business before the court from the audience. It was often a makeshift affair of boards placed on top of things like sawhorses.

I was once in a hangout for federal agents and overheard a conversation among three of them at a nearby table. They were laughing about how they were infecting dissident groups with wacko theories and how well that worked to distract and discredit them. I suspect this myth is an example of that kind of operation.

The origin of "the bar" organized in the way it is now way doesn't go back as far as Britain before the Founding of the United States. In that era one entered the practice of law by studying and apprenticeship, just as one did in medicine or other fields. There was no central licensing system for lawyers or other professions. One just hung up a shingle.

There are may things wrong with the legal profession and with the "state bars" that emerged as "integrated bar" legislation in the 1920s, and I urge the repeal of such legislation, but all this mythcrap diverts people in the freedom movement from taking effective action on the real problems. Another rabbithole.

There is too, such a thing called a BAR.

It's a Browning Automatic Rifle.

Leonidas is right...lets concentrate on the problem at hand.

Leonidas is right.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Given the vast amounts of both required, the tar and feather industry just might be what this country needs in order to stimulate the economy.

IMO, the real problem with these 911 snitch calls is the personal responsibility that an "anonymous" caller avoids.

For true justice to prevail, criminal accusations cannot remain anonymous, and if the accusers were actually held accountable, there would be far fewer calls, but the spy on your neighbor agenda obviously facilitates this type of snitching.

Here's another example that makes the case for a revolt against tyranny.

I do not agree completely with that, let me explain.

While it is important to stand together and present a united front, it is also important for Patriots and Militia to have credibility.

When falsehoods or total garbage gets posted as facts and the truth whether or not it was a deliberate lie or just by mistake or lack of knowledge, it is not good for the credibility of the person who posted the false information nor for the site where it was posted.

For a person who posts false information, to restore their credibility, it is necessary that they acknowledge their mistake, after all we are only Human and are not God.

And for a site like this one to maintain it's credibility after a member or members post garbage as fact the site should or at least another member should correct the mistake the other member made and post the correct information.

It would be better if the member who posted false information was privately informed of his error so he could publicly correct his own mistake, but unfortunately most of the members of boards like this one are too arrogant to admit they are only human and can make mistakes and will argue with you that they are not the one who is wrong.

Here is a very good example of a site that as far as I am concerned has Zero credibility due to posting totally incorrect information, Garbage as fact.

http://www.libertyforlife.com/law/black-sheep-of-the-bar.html

Only ignorant people would believe what is posted on that page.

Whoever owns or is responsible for the content of that site is a total retard who apparently has never read or probably never even looked at the the 13th Amendment or even any of the other Amendments.

So why would anyone but another retard give any credence to anything else that is posted there.

If AWRM is to preserve the credibility it has earned, total garbage that is posted should not be permitted to go unchallenged.

If anyone is interested in what the 13 Amendment states I have it on my board.

http://www.usastrike.org/docs/constitutional-amendments.html

And then there is this, the 13th Amendment was not ratified in 1812 nor were any of the other Amendments, the 13th was adopted in 1865 and prohibited slavery so how anyone other then a total idiot could be so stupid as to post total crap about the 13th Amendment I have no idea, unless they knew it was untrue and posted a deliberate lie.

Oh by the way the 12th Amendment ratified 1804 was about Electing the President and the Electoral College.

I think the 13th Amendment that safetalker is referring to, is an amendment which was passed by congress but never ratified by a sufficient majority of states to become an official amendment. Interestingly, it is an outstanding amendment, which means if 3/4ths of the states were to ratify it today, it would become law. Its wording is as follows:

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, or receive or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."

Those who argue that this amendment was ratified are generally of the ilk who incorrectly believe that it would strip lawyers of their citizenship (and are working toward that end) due to their use of the "Esq." suffix.

Anyone who actually believes that the Amendment that was not ratified is the real 13th Amendment is not rational and has Zero credibility, and everything that person states should not be believed by any intelligent and rational person. And adding to that the mistaken belief that this unratified Amendment would get rid of Attorneys proves beyond any reasonable doubt, at least to me that, the person who believes this is not fit to vote or to make any decisions affecting anyone else's life, liberty or pursuit of happiness and everything he or she says should at least be fully researched before giving any credence to it or to save a lot of time just tossed in the trash.

Posting total garbage like that on any Patriot board does a disservice not only to that board but to the entire Patriot cause.

What will be the next garbage posted on this board, that the Earth is Flat.

I can see how the Militia and the Patriot Movement in general is viewed as a bunch of uneducated hicks by a large percentage of the American People, what with all the garbage that gets posted and all the stupid things that most of us believe in.

Patriots need to stop posting crap like what was posted about the BAR and all the conspiracy theories and instead post only the facts and truth that can be verified or at least can be easily understood by intelligent people, otherwise the Militia and other Patriots will be considered Looney Toons and nut cases by the general populace.

Actually we are already considered nut cases by a large percentage of the people, could all our talk about conspiracies and stupid stuff about Amendments that never got ratified etc. etc. etc. have anything to do with this.

I'm actually glad I'm already a member on this board. If I were a lurker or FNG, and keep seeing crap about the US being a corporation, etc., I would turn away and never look back. If our government adhered to the Constitution, I wouldn't give a crap if it were a corporation, LLC, or limited partnership. The problem is, they're not adhering to the Constitution; not respecting the limits of their power.

Sniper, I agree that we need to curb the conspiracy theories. Granted, I'm quite conspiracy minded myself, to the point that after Bin Laden was taken out, when I posted some of my theories to facebook, my dad, the next day, made it a point to inform me that there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll, but conspiracy theories should be backed with evidence, or they'll remain crazy theories and nothing else. It's a distraction from what's important.

Either way, the concept is valid when we are talking about whether or not someone is "selling out" to a foreign power, but I guess gets muddy when they are selling goods or services to a foreign power.

Getting back to the "Lexzington and Concorde" discussion, there were numerous incidents of abuse leading up to it, primarily during the French/Indian wars when the colonists who had become accustomed to living in freedom due to their isolation from British authorities chafed under British supervision. That "chafing" is eventually what led to the revolution, but also a big part of it was the diplomatic work done by the freemasons leading up to the war and their recruitment of international assistance on behalf of the revolutionaries.

Likewise, the Texas revolution was directly tied to gun control against whites and free blacks (although there were few at that point). The Mexican authorities, in keeping with their nature, authorized summary execution of any white Texan caught with a firearm. Now in theory, it was not race based, as it was an anti-immigrant law against northern Europeans who went to Texas from the US, but oddly enough, the Irish who went further down into Mexico were welcomed (I think due to Catholic sympathies).

I would guess that the Texans of that revolution would not have much desire to join the USA of today, but then again, by default that issue was made clear in the Civil war.

Which gets me back to the issue of establishing enclaves, then free zones within a state or group of states, then eventually some sort of diplomatically recognized autonomy. The idea being an autonomous region which would later then have the option of signing or rejecting UN arms control and trade regulations.

Manipulation of those regulations is what can make a small country quite wealthy like Belgium, or Switzerland or some of the other new republics in the former Soviet states.

The Colonists in the early fights of the revolution were in fact fighting to defend their own established local government, up to the state level, and in reality, at the several state level. Shortly after the war, there were fights like the Whiskey rebellion where some regions were in rebellion for a while until the bill of rights was ratified. What we need to be wary of is drawing our historical reference to that time period between National Independence and the Bill of Rights. I cannot say that early republic was really all that much of a beacon for freedom, just an example of how a new nation could prosper.

One the Bill of Rights was ratified, we then began an ongoing 200 year struggle to enforce it, with what I think historians will say the peak of American freedom coinciding with the Reagan years and then going down from there due to technological and political changes. It is my lifetime struggle to preserve those rights for myself and future generations as long as possible, to the detriment of aspiring dictators.

Lets not lose sight of that when arguing the minutiae of the placement of a comma somewhere in the original Constitution document or number of delegates who voted a particular version of it.

Enclaves are a horrible idea IMO.

They isolate us from the rest of the population and make it far easier to get at us.

Give up nothing. Not a square inch of this nation. Otherwise, this will end with 3 of us on a mountaintop in Idaho and the Apaches coming in to end it.

Waco
Ruby Ridge
Freemen
That sovereign bunch in TX
That christian group in MT

That's how seiges almost always end and how do you escape?

Mobility
Guerilla Insurgency

Now if you are a militant islamic enclave like Islamberg, then the govt seeks to protect you. They won't protect us, they want us all dead.

Fight or Die

I have one thing to say about enclaves or turning your home into a fort. Masada

Shall not fall again.

If the enclaves are large enough and economically viable enough, they will work. Especially if you move in quietly and only threaten to make a stand once you are fairly well established in local politics.

The other issue with those other places is that the feds had to be progressively lighter on them after Waco as they rightfully began to fear retaliation after the fact.

That's where things get dicey. You can only defend the enclave so much from a frontal conventional attack, but options for revenge later on, well, that's another matter.

I think it is the retaliation issue that is keeping the feds from moving on any of the several Muslim enclaves that according to some leaked intelligence reports have included paramilitary training in weapons and IEDs, and the people are even posting some of their own terrorism training around the net. Why are they not getting hit? I think it is because someone somewhere has done some levels of diplomacy which has included the options I have previously discussed.

Fact of the matter is, we need some of our own enclaves too. It is absurd to try and present it as us fighting for everyone else who refuses to support us and would just as well shoot us in the back and collect a reward from the JBTs when push comes to shove. We need to find out and establish who are own people are, and then run with that, protecting our people and getting support through them, and in turn supporting our own internal economy.

That's what goes on in Ireland, for better or for worse, but they consider the establishment of the enclaves of the significant factions to be the primary step toward diplomatic recognition of those factions.

At first, most of the enclaves are semi-secret and don't need heavy publicity. Then as time goes on, exchange support and business with other like minded communities and grow it from there.

Another issue is that possibility of a mobile population, like the "snowbirds" who run the RV circuit between the Northwest and Southwest as the seasons change, and in effect, their enclaves move with them except that most don't have viable mobile businesses. What they have are pension and disability checks, maybe investment dividends, but that's something.

The economic strength of the enclave is in turning the money over within the enclave instead of exporting cash all of the time. Wealthbuilding as a group means more economic stability as time goes on. That economic security helps you handle the little conflicts, and the infrastructure you develop will help you handle the big ones.

Here's some news on that Oak Park vegetable garden insanity .

The moral here is, if someone in government wants to make your life a living hell, he can.

Onward and upward,
airforce

True, but people need to wake up and realize that it works both ways. You can make the tyrants life a living hell too if you're willing to be creative.

The key word is "creative." I've accomplished quite a bit just by talking to members of the city council in private and, when that didn't work, talking to them in public. But in some places--as you pointed out--that can get you thrown in jail.

I've posted these before, but here is 198 methods of nonviolent action . Whatever the situation is, if you can't find two or three that work, you're not really trying.

Onward and upward,
airforce

Breacher,

First you have to sell the concept of enclaving to enough patriots who CAN and WOULD move. YES there are people who have gravitated to Arizona to the Free State project but they're convinced making symbolic resistance is better than actual results-so they're seen by a lot of folks as wackos and targets by the local regimes.

Second you have to find a desirable town in a area that could be locally self-sufficient as possible. Meaning water, resources, local industry, etc.

Third there is the matter of displacing the local power structure. The best way to do that would be an emergency recall election generated by a scandal. Quartzsite Arizona would be a great one to pull that off politically given their recent notoriety... not so hot on the ideal of taking over desert real estate so close to the US gunowner armed drug cartels...

The key is to go in there with a winning attitude, a realistic outlook as to how universally corrupt local gov. is, and a workable plan. The GIs of Athens TN. had the right ideal.

This would be best accomplished in a smaller town. You get into even a mid-sized city you're dealing with different voting bases that are welfare-dependent, hostile to Americans in general, or God forbid a enclave of .gov drones.

The biggest problem of course is finding enough Patriots with the wherewithal to move that would be willing. You're pretty persuasive with your writings I think you could make a go at it.

They'll make Julie Bass pay one way or another for defying them. Massa don't like their tax slaves getting uppity. Maybe some hero cops will do a 'welfare check' and have to shoot the dogs in self defense...

Not me. Stupidity has never been one of my shortcomings.

We should be looking at maximal dispersion, maximum mobility.

Now if we had some plan to buy all the munitions factories around the country, and set up around those, then it might be interesting.

I think the kids are awakening!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jyIbhUDIaE&feature=player_embedded#at=11

Out-friggin-standing.

ANONYMOUS - Yeah, they are worth watching. I have a very strong impression that their core leadership is actually made up of disillusioned intelligence service personnel from former allied countries.

People are partially right in saying that they are connected with CIA, Mossad, MI6 ect, but not in ways folks would normally think. They are in reality their own underground organization for their own purposes. Just a couple years ago they decided to face off against the Scientologists and have mauled the whole L Ron Hubbard crowd pretty hard.

Well, maximum mobility has a price to be paid in you're relying on attracting kindred souls who will not or cannot do actual fighting to provide food, shelter, intel, arms and other support.

Do you have that kind of pull? I don't.

Besides politics is a more polite brand of warfare. The enemy knows it and can relax in the knowledge that the militias haven't played it smart politically as a group.

Hint: local offices are the achilles heel of the beast, they wield most of the day-to-day power over us and are vulnerable to recall elections as most folks don't vote period and of those that vote, most don't vote in local elections. Which is why we got so many cops tasering grannies and such. Good job minding your own business there.

You leave political office to the enemy they will use it to restrict and ban your arms and other 'perceived rights'. Not a formula for victory.

Buy munitions factories? With WHAT? And say you did-what municipality in America is going to tolerate some 'redneck militia types' making their own weaponry? What you get for not having interjected yourselves into the political process.

No: you want to win you need weapons, food, fuel, shelter. That comes from owning territory. You gain territory as a Freedom Fighter by having the hearts and minds of the People. You win those hearts and minds by interjecting in the local political process and booting out the boss hogs and tin badge gods.

Get it?

I see where you are coming from.

However, I think I have some differences of opinion with that whole plan.

But you're right, if you want to grow crops, raise animals, and have a friendly area of operations, you need territory.

However, you will not survive long if the enemy knows there are hostiles (i.e. you) in a fixed area, year-round, year by year.

Own the "territory" but keep the active resistance elements of that territory static. Keep it moving. Set up many safehouses in an area and keep the "operating" members of your group moving around.

Each of these safehouses has to be good to go on their own, with enough resources to defend themselves and get out if they have to.

But do not spend all of your resources protecting all of your resources in one location.

Keep the leadership of your group unknown even to operators of your safehouses. Only the rifle-toting hand-saluting bona fides that you're fighting alongside should know who the top dogs are and where they are.

If we cannot get aid from the populace, at least some portion - roughly 10-15% - then we are screwed anyhow. However, I see no need for these folks to be concentrated. Again, it only makes it easier to monitor, find and destroy both us and them.

Of course not.
Nor can you claim to have any kind of authority when you prepare to fight and constantly run away.
The Militia has ZERO credibility at this point.
Not to mention huge leadership problems.

Now, I'm not saying that is deserved as we may actually stand up and fight one of these days... :rolleyes:

Who knows.....


You are correct in your initial statement and then go astray.

You cannot just fight the head, it is the tail that provides it with power.

As stated, it was the clerks and bookeepers that gave Hitler his power. We'd do well to remember this.

It was a tongue in cheek statement. I was being sarcastic.

However, if you own the joint, you just never know where shit is going to wind up.

Get it?
No.
LMAO

You ain't got near the time you think you do. None of you do.

You'll still be trying to break a thoroughly corrupted political process in 20 years while the last of your freedom is slipping through your fingers and your children can enjoy the thrills of their weakened nation being conquered by a foreign power. One that has no intention of treating the US like it has treated those whom it has defeated.

And don't fucking patronize me.

One more thing:

There is nothing easier to infiltrate than a pyramid organization.

A loose cell structure at the outset is VITAL. Only when we ahve superiority should we consider adopting conventional tactics.

I find it laughable how many think that we will retake our political system and our nation the way the Left has done so.

We don't have 40-50 years.

That is the plain and simple truth of the matter.