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You've been lied to #159048
02/01/2016 04:40 PM
02/01/2016 04:40 PM
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ConSigCor Offline OP
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We've all been told by the media, corrupt judge grasty and even the leadership of oathkeepers that the people of Harney county "don't want them here" and they "want them to leave now".

Well listen to this.

https://youtu.be/lKgjsnOFKso

https://youtu.be/K0gE3Qxf3Mw


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: You've been lied to #159049
02/02/2016 01:13 PM
02/02/2016 01:13 PM
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ConSigCor Offline OP
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Harney County Protest Draws Hundreds on Both Sides



Several hundred people attended a protest rally at the Harney County Courthouse in Burns, Oregon on Monday.

There was a definite division between groups. Supporters of Judge Grasty, Sheriff David Ward, and the local government stood on the grounds and sidewalks, with their backs to the courthouse.

Citizens upset with LaVoy Finicum’s Death, overwhelmed with the BLM land grab issues, and others responding to a ‘Call-to-Action’ by the Pacific Patriot Network of militias, stood facing them in the street and surrounding areas.

Overall, it was a mostly peaceful rally, even if it was rather loud. Judge Grasty and Sheriff Ward stayed in the courthouse looking down at the citizens through the windows on the second floor.

There were USA Flags being waved by protesters in the street, as well as a few yellow ‘Gadsden’ flags.

There was tension between the groups, however, they all attempted to keep it verbal and not allow it to escalate. There was one notable exception.

A young lady attempted to drive through the crowd. She was driving at a rate that was not safe for the situation, if not greater than the normal speed limit. When she stopped due to a protester being in the street, as were dozens of others, she opted to try to move the man with her car, rather than honk or ask him to step away.

The State Troopers walked over after they heard shouts of “She hit him! She hit him!” Their response was to talk to her and escort her out of the area. The protester was not seriously hurt.

Additionally, there were a few loud disruptions while the protesters attempted to hold a memorial moment, including a moment of silence, for rancher LaVoy Finicum, who died on January 26, 2016.

The crowd on the courthouse steps began to thin after a short time, and I heard comments that they “had to get back to work”. The rally was begun during the normal government lunch hour, beginning at noon. However, the crowd in the street seemed to get larger as time went on. The protest lasted between three and four hours overall.

During the protest, there was a heated verbal exchange between Brandon Curtiss, founder of the Idaho 3% militia, and an unidentified older man. Curtiss was heard to say, “You [belong] in prison. And I have the documents!” The exchange of words did require the intervention of law enforcement officers.

If this is the case, one wonders why these documents have not been made public, as per the transparency demands continually being made by the protesters.

Several media outlets were represented during the rally, but it was very disappointing to watch how they set up their ‘spin’ on the day.

When the crowd was smaller and the day was winding down, I observed a reporter, and her cameraman, setting up in front of the courthouse. That was where they positioned the last of the ‘pro-government’ supporters.

This was the picture they wanted to share:

However, the Patriots responded and gave them this picture instead:


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: You've been lied to #159050
02/02/2016 09:08 PM
02/02/2016 09:08 PM
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That might explain where some of the documents went, if Brandon Curtiss or his people have them or copies of them.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: You've been lied to #159051
02/14/2016 02:04 PM
02/14/2016 02:04 PM
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ConSigCor Offline OP
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ConSigCor  Offline OP
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A few weeks ago, Shari Dovale,an "Oath Keeper and a journalist" was asked by that organization to go to Burns, Oregon. They wanted to "determine the feel of local residents concerning the occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge".


Quote
On January 2, 2016, a rally was held in Burns to protest the return to prison for the Hammond men. Many saw this as a case of ‘Double Jeopardy’ and sour grapes by the federal government for not successfully bullying the Hammonds into turning over their ranch to the government.

It is still the belief of many that the ultimate goal of the BLM, and other federal agencies, is to force the Hammonds to turn over their lands, and the mineral rights, to the government.

The rally on January 2 was a peaceful rally. However, at the end of the day, a group led by Ammon Bundy, son of famed Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, secured the Malheur Wildlife Refuge and began an occupation of the property. Aided by many, including Arizona rancher Robert “LaVoy” Finicum, the group began to call themselves the Citizens for Constitutional Freedom (C4CF).

Though the protest began about the Hammonds, it soon morphed into a referendum against the BLM and other Federal agencies. The occupiers felt the need to educate the public about the vast overreach of the Federal government.

US Constitution, Article I, Sec. 8, Clause 17 states, The Congress shall have power: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.

This was their message, the United States Constitution. The belief that the Constitution was the supreme law of the land, and the belief that the Constitution was worth defending.

The C4CF continued to frequent businesses in Burns. Spending their money and supporting the town, they spoke with as many as would sit and talk to them.

There were not many residents in the beginning that were pleased with the take over of the refuge. Though most understood the basic message that Bundy’s group was sharing, they were unused to citizen action in this form. Civil disobedience was not a concept they were comfortable with.

Burns is a small town in a slightly populated county in rural eastern Oregon. The local government controls nearly all aspects of life. They employ a great amount of the residents. Judge Steve Grasty is the man that holds the strings throughout the area.

When the occupation began Judge Grasty reacted. He began by locking down the courthouse. He had barricades placed to surround the building, and armed guards patrolled the grounds. He forbade anyone to enter on what he considered ‘unnecessary’ business.


A resident told me they wished to go into the courthouse to research some documents for their property. They were forbidden. Normal, everyday business in the courthouse has come to a halt.

The residents decided they needed to hear what Bundy had to say, so they could decide afterwards how they felt about it. They requested the use of a county building for this purpose. First, they requested the use of the main building at their fairgrounds. The request was denied by Judge Grasty. They requested the use of the Senior Center in town and this request was also denied by Grasty.

He made a public statement at a community meeting on January 19, 2016 saying that Bundy was promoting criminal activity, therefore any group that wanted him to speak would not be allowed access to a county facility.


This did not go over well with residents. Regardless of whether they agreed with Bundy’s message, they did not appreciate being censored by Grasty as to whether or not they should be free to assemble and hear whom they chose.

There were people that suggested a work around, “Just meet at someone’s home.” This may sound like a viable solution, yet it does not solve the issue of their right to Freely Assemble, as guaranteed by the Constitution.

Many residents were livid. They saw it as a blatant disregard of their civil rights, including their right to free speech. This action by Judge Grasty lost him quite a lot of support that he previously enjoyed.

The scales were tipping in favor of the protesters.

Several residents held a rally on the streets of Burns. This rally was not about the Refuge. It was not about Bundy or his group. This rally was strictly for residents, by residents, about the civil rights they felt were being denied.

Many of the protesters were still afraid to speak on camera. They cited retaliation by the local government, and Judge Grasty, against their families, as a very real fear.

But the town was still divided.

When the militia groups came to town, many seemed disruptive and troublesome. Several residents expressed their concerns that the militia groups wanted to “make the news” rather than help to resolve the current issues.

Various locals expressed to me their concerns that so many strangers had taken up residence in their town carrying weapons. They understood and appreciated the second amendment, yet seeing so many weapons arriving at one time felt very intimidating to them.

Many of the residents that I spoke with were friends with Steve Grasty and Sheriff David Ward. They felt the men were honorable and should not be vilified. “Good men sometimes have to make hard decisions,” one person said.

Yet, there were many people that believed the government would turn their town into a ghost town. That the residents would be herded into cities to live, and their small town way of life would cease.

One woman explained to me that ranching was the way of life in Harney County. Her husband used to work for the ranchers, but not anymore. The government has taken away many of the ranches, therefore, many of the jobs. Her family was barely hanging on with her custodial work.

She also did not think you could “fight City Hall.”

That seemed to be the major message that residents began discussing. If the government wanted something done a certain way, what could anyone do about it? They were used to a certain way of life, yet never thought about whether or not they, as individuals, could change the rules and make it better.

I had the pleasure of spending time with LaVoy Finicum during my time in Oregon. I visited the Refuge on multiple occasions. LaVoy was one of the first people I met and he made me feel safe, secure and very welcome.

LaVoy knew quite a lot about the Refuge and gave me a tour. He also showed me the artifacts referenced by the Burns-Paiute Tribe. I was grieved to see the poor treatment the artifacts had received over the past several decades.

LaVoy, and everyone at the refuge, showed every willingness to talk openly to me. Though I told them I would not discuss on camera any issue they felt uncomfortable with, they never once refused a subject. The transparency was a model the government would do well to emulate.

This openness, that all members appeared to share, was an important point to most residents. Several residents went to the Refuge to see for themselves what was happening. They were impressed with the improvements the group was making. The facilities had fallen into disrepair and cleanliness was an additional issue. The visitors that spoke to me all noted the changes.

The message that Bundy’s group was spreading was beginning to be heard further away. After about 3 weeks, the people of Grant County, just to the north of Burns, requested to meet with Ammon and his group.
A townhall meeting was scheduled for the January 26, 2016 in the town of John Day.

Oregon’s US Senator Ron Wyden was quoted as saying the standoff was “a situation where the virus was spreading,” and action needed to be taken.

Several hundred people showed up for this townhall. Bundy’s group never arrived.

About 20 miles north of Burns, the FBI and the Oregon State Police set up a roadblock. They had snipers in the trees and dozens of Law Enforcement Officers on the scene. According to their statements, they were executing a routine “traffic stop.”

The traffic stop ended in the arrest of Ammon Bundy and several members of his group. It also resulted in the death of LaVoy Finicum, spokesman for the C4CF.

Finicum’s death shocked the community. Though most people expected something to happen, no one was willing to say they expected someone to die. Finicum was well liked and respected. It has hit many very hard.

Ammon Bundy was transferred to Portland. The militia mostly left Burns after several days. A few more rallies and the town was quiet.

But the pendulum is still moving. Many residents have found their voice. They do not want the momentum to end. They do not want things to return to the status quo. They are unhappy with their government, and still need guidance to resolve key issues. But they do not want a take-over of their town.

Burns is their home. It is where they chose to raise their children. It is where they want to spend their lives.

I have been asked by a few residents to return in a couple of weeks to see how they are doing. I am looking forward to it.


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: You've been lied to #159052
02/14/2016 02:12 PM
02/14/2016 02:12 PM
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ConSigCor Offline OP
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After Oregon standoff, some say: Right fight; wrong tactics

By BRADY McCOMBS and KEN RITTER

LAS VEGAS (AP)

That's what many ranchers and sympathizers opposing federal control of public lands in the West concluded after the armed occupation of a national wildlife refuge in Oregon.

For some, the weekslong standoff that ended Thursday with the surrender of the final occupiers has only strengthened their resolve to fight the government's control of vast expanses of Western land. But not all condone the tactics of the armed group that drew the nation's gaze to the snowy landscapes of eastern Oregon.

"We're not backing off," said Greg Whalen, a military veteran from Las Vegas who supports the Bundy ranching family that led the occupation. "We're actually going to fight harder - peacefully."

Whalen and others say protests must remain a key part of the strategy - but they must be civil to avoid giving a reason for arrests.

Others suggest the battle should shift to the courts to pry authority over open space from the federal government. State lawmakers, notably in Utah, are considering a legal way to take control of U.S. lands that account for a majority of the West, including most of Nevada; about two-thirds of Utah, Idaho and Alaska; and half of Oregon.

Federal officials say U.S. control ensures the land is used in the interest of the environment, outdoor enthusiasts and industries, such as ranching, mining, and oil and gas.

Utah Gov. Gary Herbert denounced the tactics in the standoff but called it "a wakeup call for all of us that there (are) legitimate issues out there that are causing frustration."

Supporters say sympathy from prominent Western politicians shows that their mantra - that locals can do a better job managing federal lands than out-of-touch bureaucrats in Washington, D.C. - has been embraced by more than gun-toting protesters.

"We're not just cowboys with hats who are hicks and don't know what's going on," said LisaMarie Johnson, who stood with Cliven Bundy at his Nevada ranch in a 2014 armed standoff with federal agents. Bundy is the father of the Oregon occupation's leaders.

"People in New York City don't understand what's going on out here," the Nevada resident said.

The dispute predates statehood in some places. But calls for action have gotten louder as federal agencies designate protected areas for endangered species and set aside tracts for mining, wind farms and natural gas exploration. The latest wave has roots in the Sagebrush Rebellion, which began more than 40 years ago over grazing rights in Nevada.

Occupiers that seized the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon on Jan. 2 demanded the U.S. turn over the land to locals and release two ranchers imprisoned for setting fires.

Tom Haynie, a 58-year-old Las Vegas resident who's also passionate about solar energy, medical marijuana and water in the West, subscribes to a common belief in the movement.

"The government wants to control everything," Haynie said. "But it's the people's land, not the federal government's land."

Brett Tolman, a former U.S. attorney in Utah, said it appears the federal government is trying to send a message: You will face legal consequences if you cross the line from peaceful protest.

Cliven Bundy was arrested Wednesday in Portland for his actions nearly two years ago in the Nevada standoff.

A total of 25 people have been charged in the Oregon occupation.

Four people were prosecuted in Utah for riding ATVs on an off-limits trail in 2014, including a well-known county commissioner who was convicted and became a cause celebre in the movement.

Therein lies the danger in the federal strategy: The intended message may be misinterpreted, Tolman said.

"I think people are going to be more hardened and more upset, and in some ways, you make martyrs out of those who have chosen this route," he said.

Many are giving that status to Arizona rancher Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, who was killed by police in a Jan. 26 traffic stop that also led to the arrests of Cliven Bundy's sons, Ammon and Ryan Bundy.

Finicum, an Oregon standoff spokesman, was memorialized at his funeral last week near the Utah-Arizona border as a freedom fighter murdered in the name of liberty. Authorities say he was reaching for a gun.

Some worry that the Bundys will garner similar sympathy as they remain in jail. But others say they don't consider them leaders of a movement that has more moderate voices working through the courts.

"How can you go up there and take over government property and expect to accomplish anything from it?" said Demar Dahl, an Elko County commissioner in Nevada and advocate for state control of lands. "Whatever we do, we've got to do within the law."

Jerry DeLemus traveled twice from his home in New Hampshire to play peacemaker - once during the Nevada standoff and once during the Oregon occupation.

"I love the Bundys," DeLemus said this week. "But they made a tactical mistake going out to that refuge. They were portrayed as armed anti-government protesters taking over government buildings. There was a lot of fear."

---


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861
Re: You've been lied to #159053
03/20/2016 05:58 AM
03/20/2016 05:58 AM
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noname762 Offline
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ConSigCor I had been following the Burns OR situation all thru the occupation. On another website I am a member it certainly was in the news there. However they have a very strict rule there. No Politics. So as one might guess threads were shut down when folks got stirred up. I have to be expressly careful myself in threads like that. I can't express myself over there like I can here. I think Lavoy was murdered by the OSP from orders from WA DC. Perhaps the director of the FBI. I'll never know for sure as will any of us. This entire thing will be classified top secret for the next hundred years no doubt.

I see all or certainly most of what happened in Burns and the refuge as a basic private property issue. ALL OF US who own our own homes or land is in the crosshairs. To a lesser degree we have similar issues in my county in WA state. One can't fight city hall as one lady there said. The only way to get the attention of folks like that judge is just load a rifle and use it as Sam Colt envisioned.

I am stopping right there as I don't want to be the next Randy Weaver.


Grass fed Beef..it's what's fer supper July 4th.
Re: You've been lied to #159054
03/20/2016 08:50 AM
03/20/2016 08:50 AM
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Welcome back, but I think the consensus has been that the orders were given from within Oregon. There was an open consensus stated by Oregon governor Kate Brown and Oregons senators, one of whom openly urged (in his own words) "stop the virus before it spreads". The local congressmen were apparently urging for stalling tactics instead. They have been pretty frank about how they were overridden. The majority of law senior law enforcement also took sides, and are taking sides against the one sheriff who Bundy was heading out to meet, so no, it looks like he was not the traitor.

It is also looking like state police personnel were the jumpy shooters in the situation, but the Feds have plenty of guilt in it.

The Feds have been poised to sell out the state police on the shooting, but then the state people have been making sure that evidence pointing to the Feds gets leaked out too. Hence relatively honest information coming out from the states defacto news agencies, like the synchronized video.


Life liberty, and the pursuit of those who threaten them.

Trump: not the president America needs, but the president America deserves.
Re: You've been lied to #159055
03/20/2016 02:58 PM
03/20/2016 02:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,741
A 059 Btn 16 FF MSC
ConSigCor Offline OP
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ConSigCor  Offline OP
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noname, good to see you back. I wondered what happened to you. Feel free to express yourself here any time.

I read an article the other day that claims Obummer called the governor and gave her orders or at least the green light to deal with the "virus".


"The time for war has not yet come, but it will come and that soon, and when it does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Gen. T.J. Jackson, March 1861

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