FBI supervisor says he didn't hear the disputed shots.

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The boss of indicted FBI agent W. Joseph Astarita testified Friday that he never heard the two disputed shots fired at refuge occupation spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum's truck in 2016 and saw no indication that Astarita had fired his rifle.

Identified only as Supervisory Special Agent B.M., the nearly 12-year veteran of the FBI headed the bureau's Hostage Rescue Blue Team at the scene that day and previously worked with Astarita on the agency's SWAT team in New York.

B.M. was standing near Astarita on Jan. 26, 2016, after Finicum slammed his pickup into a snowbank at a roadblock as the FBI and state police tried to arrest the leaders of the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The occupiers were traveling in a two-car caravan to a community meeting in the next county.

B.M. said four times on the witness stand that he never heard the two shots that prosecutors contend Astarita tried to conceal but he heard all the other shots fired that day.

Investigators say one of Astarita's shots went through the roof of Finicum's truck and broke out the rear passenger window and the other missed.

Astarita, 41, has denied firing any shots. He's on trial on two counts of making a false statement to FBI supervisors, including B.M., and one count of obstruction of justice from an interview with state police detectives the night of the shooting.

B.M. said he was standing in front of a state police pickup parked on the center line of U.S. 395 when Finicum immediately stepped out of his truck after hitting the snowbank. Astarita was to his right, he said, standing beside the open passenger door of the police pickup.

"Does it appear agent Astarita is holding his rifle?'' federal prosecutor Gary Sussman asked.

"Yes, sir,'' B.M. replied.

"Is it aimed at Finicum's truck?'' Sussman asked.

"It looks like it's oriented towards the vehicle, sir,'' B.M. said.

Sussman asked B.M. if he heard several shots fired at Finicum's truck as it raced toward the roadblock. B.M. said he did. Investigators later determined that a state police officer, identified as Officer 1, fired three shots as the truck approached the roadblock.

And B.M. heard multiple shots fired after Finicum had walked away from his truck, the shots that killed Finicum? B.M. said he did. Two state police officers fired three times at Finicum after he had reached into his jacket where investigators later said he had a loaded handgun.

But, Sussman asked, B.M. didn't hear the two shots in between, right as Finicum got out of his pickup?

"No sir, I don't remember hearing a shot at that moment,'' B.M. answered. "I don't remember hearing any shots at that point.''

He noted that he was wearing noise-canceling headphones on his tactical helmet during the entire encounter.

B.M. said he could see Astarita in his peripheral vision.

"Did you see any indication Special Agent Astarita had shot?'' Sussman asked.

"No sir, I did not,'' B.M. said.

A trooper near the Oregon standoff spokesman told investigators later: "He's going for a gun and I can tell you right now, uh, I was very uncomfortable." One of the troopers who fired at Finicum said: "I need to take action to stop him from being a threat."

B.M. said he asked members of his team afterward if they were OK or had fired any shots. He asked Astarita and "he said no,'' B.M. told jurors.

Sussman asked about Astarita's general demeanor after the shooting. B.M. described him as energetic, excited, collecting his gear.

"Did he appear a little unnerved?'' Sussman asked.

"I don't know if I would characterize it as unnerved, sir,'' B.M. said.

At that, Sussman directed the witness to a transcript of his May 2017 testimony to an investigator with the U.S. Department of Justice's Office of Inspector General when he described Astarita at that moment as "unnerved." B.M. acknowledged he had used the word then.

FBI agent Michael Ferrari, a veteran member of the Hostage Rescue Team, was on the stand most of the second day of Astarita's trial. He was able to identify only the general vicinity where he was standing when the two disputed shots occurred and the location of another hostage team agent, John Neidert, who Finicum almost hit as he crashed into the snowbank.

Before it turned dark the day Finicum was killed, B.M. said he spotted one shell casing in front of the state police truck where he and Astarita had been standing but didn't alert anyone to mark it or pick it up as evidence.

He said his agents did a check of the area for other items and at some point Astarita suggested they do a second check.

A day or two later, B.M. said he was told investigators had concerns about Astarita's initial response to another FBI agent at the scene when asked whether he had fired his rifle. B.M. said he confronted Astarita about it in his tent at the tactical operations center at the Burns airfield.

B.M. said he asked whether Astarita had actually said, "You can't ask me that, bro." Astarita told him that he actually said, "Don't ask me. I don't know,'' according to B.M.


"Joe didn't seem to have any awareness,'' of what had occurred, and said he didn't remember hearing any shots, B.M. said.

B.M. said he once again asked Astarita directly if he had fired and Astarita responded: "No, I did not fire.''

B.M. said he checked his own rifle for any gunpowder residue, just to confirm that he hadn't fired his weapon, and found nothing peculiar. He said he never checked Astarita's rifle, rounds or watched Astarita check his rifle.

B.M. was asked to step down briefly from the witness stand and was handed the black Rock River Arms Rifle 556 model AR-15 platform that he carried the day of the shooting. At the prosecutor's request, he slung it over his shoulder and showed how he carried it and raised it and pointed it at the back wall of the courtroom. He also demonstrated the white light on the rifle.

Asked if he fired any of the two disputed shots, B.M. said, "No sir I did not. ... I'm certain. It's possible but extremely unlikely.''

On cross-examination, Astarita's lawyer Robert Cary focused on the last part of B.M.'s response.

Cary asked if there was anything from B.M.'s lengthy service for the FBI or Army Reserves that led him to say it was "possible'' he had fired his rifle that day?

"Yes, in my experience, under conditions like this, it's possible. It's possible I was not entirely situationally aware'' considering the stressful, dynamic nature of the scene, he said. "I think it is possible that can happen under conditions like this with all the environmental stressors.''

On redirect, the prosecutor then asked B.M. if there are tell-tale signs that an officer would recognize upon firing his weapon. Usually an officer would feel a recoil of their rifle or see the muzzle rise, B.M. said.

"It's highly unlikely that I would have fired,'' he added.

B.M. was not identified by his full name, according to Sussman, because of his ongoing Army Reserve service.

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In other testimony Friday, another FBI Hostage Rescue Team agent who was at the roadblock echoed much of what B.M. had said.

Agent John Neidert, with the FBI a little over 19 years, was assigned to the Hostage Rescue Team for 6 1/2 years and was assisting B.M.'s Blue Team.

When Finicum's truck barrelled toward the roadblock, Neidert said he heard a supervisor direct agents to "bail out'' toward their left, to the east side of the road. But Neidert was further toward the west and went the opposite way.

"I expected the truck to hit me when it came through the snow,'' Neidert said.

Once Finicum stopped, Neidert said he popped out of the snow, a little dazed and shaken, behind the right rear tire of the truck.

His immediate focus then was on the passenger side of Finicum's truck, concerned refuge occupier Ryan Payne was in the front passenger seat and could be a threat.

Kneeling in the snow, he tried to keep his rifle trained on the passenger side of Finicum's truck. At some point, Neidert said he got out of the snow and ran past B.M. and Astarita to take cover behind the state police truck.

Neidert testified he didn't hear any gunshots when Finicum stepped out of his truck. He said he later noticed one shell casing on the street, near the front of the state police truck that was part of the roadblock.

He didn't remember its color but recalled discussing with someone, "Is it one of ours?'' referring to the .223-caliber bullets the FBI fires, or the .308-caliber ones most of the state SWAT officers had.

Neidert said he didn't pick up any shell casings but did get on the ground and look for other items near the trucks later as part of a standard FBI security check, finding a remnant from a flash-bang grenade.

Sometime that night, while sitting in a truck at the scene with Astarita and another FBI agent, Neidert said Astarita told the other agent that "he had saved me'' and "had to pull me out of the snowbank.''

"Did he pull you out?'' the prosecutor asked Neidert.

"No,'' Neidert said. "I just took it as jesting.''


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